At Goal & Successfully Maintaining. So Why Am I Doing This All Over Again?
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Our local Thai restaurant does a special “box” meal, meaning it’s in a partitioned laquer box. They put a sample of many different things in each section: three or four pieces of sushi, a couple of sashimi, a melon salad, a little scoop of rice, and I always get the teriyaki beef and vegetables. It comes with either a cup of Tom kha ga (chicken coconut soup), or a small green salad.
Even with the coconut soup, I’ve got it figured under 1,000 calories- couple hundred less with the green salad, less, too, if I went for the teriyaki chicken.
Maybe they’ve got a small sampler like that? Or what about a bowl of soup or salad, and some chicken satay?
Don’t stress. I live in fear of “going back”, but you also have to give yourself grace to enjoy once in a while. I’ll guarantee you, you’ll have an overnight surge, but be right back to par a couple days later.3 -
I am at the halfway point in my weight loss journey, and I am right there with many of you in the fear of going off the deep end and reverting back in a way that ruins all my progress. I’m at the weight where in the past I’ve hit a wall and decided to give up. I am determined not to let that happen this time, and in many ways “this time” really has been different. My habits have truly changed. I’m trying to trust that.
I have a cruise coming up in a few weeks (my first one ever!) and I’ve been strategizing ways to ensure I stay at or under maintenance. The two biggest things for me are alcohol and desserts. I won’t have my amazing Creami with me, so I’ll have to find a way to get my sweet fix without all the calories. I didn’t get the unlimited drink package, so I’ll be using alcohol sparingly. At least, that’s the plan.3 -
LifeChangz wrote: »agree on the whip cream, indulgence in a can ~ a squirt on top of morning coffee, and iuse it between layers of plain greek yogurt for a parfait.
and recently was thinking this might be good in the Ninja creami too. I wonder tho, does yogurt stay soft in the Ninja? the yogurt I did try to simply freeze did not freeze well.
for the parfaits, i pre-mix the yogurt with chocolate protein powder, peanut butter/pb2 pure powder, vanilla extract, some instant decaf and smashed berries, chill. I premix a cup or 2, and enjoy for several meals/snacks.
@LifeChangz heres photos of ice cream made with yogurt.
The yogurt was still delicious. I would use it again.
Recipe for 2 servings @ 144 each. I could have used quite a bit less pudding mix.
Frozen mixes often look like they’ve separated, but they blend well:
After blending, it is the texture of soft serve:
Half a pint, along with some whipped cream and lemon honey crystals:
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springlering62 wrote: »LifeChangz wrote: »agree on the whip cream, indulgence in a can ~ a squirt on top of morning coffee, and iuse it between layers of plain greek yogurt for a parfait.
and recently was thinking this might be good in the Ninja creami too. I wonder tho, does yogurt stay soft in the Ninja? the yogurt I did try to simply freeze did not freeze well.
for the parfaits, i pre-mix the yogurt with chocolate protein powder, peanut butter/pb2 pure powder, vanilla extract, some instant decaf and smashed berries, chill. I premix a cup or 2, and enjoy for several meals/snacks.
@LifeChangz heres photos of ice cream made with yogurt.
The yogurt was still delicious. I would use it again.
Recipe for 2 servings @ 144 each. I could have used quite a bit less pudding mix.
Frozen mixes often look like they’ve separated, but they blend well:
After blending, it is the texture of soft serve:
Half a pint, along with some whipped cream and lemon honey crystals:
Love!!
I used your pudding skyr recipes to make my own. So far my favorites are lemon using vanilla pudding mix, white chocolate pudding mix with strawberry Walden Farms syrup, and pistachio pudding mix with chocolate Walden Farms syrup. Butterscotch pudding mix with caramel Walden Farms syrup is an honorable mention.
I added the the allulose for some extra sweetness and texture, and it works like a charm.
Ninja Creami FroYo
- 1 cup (8 fl oz) plain low- or non-fat Greek yogurt (can sub with skyr)
- 1/2 tsp vanilla (optional)
- 14g sugar-free Jello pudding mix, any flavor
- 1 tbsp cocoa powder (optional, used for chocolate flavor)
- 2 tbsp allulose sweetener
- 6 oz cold water
- 4-5 chopped strawberries, peach slices, pineapple chunks, or banana slices (optional)
- 1-2 tbsp Walden Farms syrup (chocolate, caramel, or strawberry- optional)
- 1 tbsp lemon juice and 1/2 tsp lemon extract (optional for lemon flavor)
Mix all ingredients well. Pour into Ninja Creami pint container, cover, and freeze on a flat surface for 24 hours. Mix in Creami on Lite Ice Cream setting. Re-spin once for best texture.1 -
@Springlering62 that lemon made me want to jump through the tablet to try it! BL and his pants post had me in stitches. Can you clue me, why would fajitas have so many calories? Isn't it just grilled peppers and chicken?1
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@Springlering62 that lemon made me want to jump through the tablet to try it! BL and his pants post had me in stitches. Can you clue me, why would fajitas have so many calories? Isn't it just grilled peppers and chicken?
Tortillas and, even more so, oil.
Each tortilla in those places is often huge and probably somewhere in the 150-200 calorie range. peppers and onions aren't terrible but the oil that comes WITH the meat (steak or chicken) and UP YOU GO. Add in traditional sides that often come along - rice, refried beans (usually made with lard) and cheese and well.2 -
I think fear of eating out/losing control of calories is one of those things that you kind of need to (carefully, for your own mental health and so as not to throw in the towel) do to move past. And I do think it's worth moving past, if eating out (or holidays or family dinners or what have you) are an occasionally but socially/culturally important part of your life.
Eating out FREQUENTLY the strategy for me changes. A couple of months a year I have a good week worth of days where every meal is some kind of fastfood. I know the calories in those things and I choose wisely. They also coincide with when my activity is much higher, buying me some buffer room, calorie wise.
But the 'go out, sit down, local place' thing? Twice a month is a lot for me. It's usually more like every other month. Yesterday was one of those. I'm pretty sure I ate well over 3,000 calories of food (steak and potato with both butter and sour cream but then peach cobbler and ice cream, rolls with cinnamon butter, and an alcoholic drink). Because I've done this stuff a while and I track my weight I know exactly that I'm going to go up 2lbs, maybe 3, and then it will drop back to well within the range I maintain/have been maintaining for a while.
More importantly, because I've done this a while I know I'm going to get right back to my normal life and food meaning it isn't the start of a spiral.
I actually finding eating out one of the EASIER things to manage food wise. Having to get dressed and GO SOMEWHERE to get it vs it being IN MY HOUSE WITH ME is just easier. No 'Oh well it's still there might as well finish it' thoughts to fight.
Mileages may vary of course but not having my brain go haywire imaginigng me going right back to obese every time I'm having a meal out has not been terrible. I just had to work through it to get there and it, of course, took some time.
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OMG Lemon Ice cream Ninja Creami😍1
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wunderkindking wrote: »I think fear of eating out/losing control of calories is one of those things that you kind of need to (carefully, for your own mental health and so as not to throw in the towel) do to move past. And I do think it's worth moving past, if eating out (or holidays or family dinners or what have you) are an occasionally but socially/culturally important part of your life.
Eating out FREQUENTLY the strategy for me changes. A couple of months a year I have a good week worth of days where every meal is some kind of fastfood. I know the calories in those things and I choose wisely. They also coincide with when my activity is much higher, buying me some buffer room, calorie wise.
But the 'go out, sit down, local place' thing? Twice a month is a lot for me. It's usually more like every other month. Yesterday was one of those. I'm pretty sure I ate well over 3,000 calories of food (steak and potato with both butter and sour cream but then peach cobbler and ice cream, rolls with cinnamon butter, and an alcoholic drink). Because I've done this stuff a while and I track my weight I know exactly that I'm going to go up 2lbs, maybe 3, and then it will drop back to well within the range I maintain/have been maintaining for a while.
More importantly, because I've done this a while I know I'm going to get right back to my normal life and food meaning it isn't the start of a spiral.
I actually finding eating out one of the EASIER things to manage food wise. Having to get dressed and GO SOMEWHERE to get it vs it being IN MY HOUSE WITH ME is just easier. No 'Oh well it's still there might as well finish it' thoughts to fight.
Mileages may vary of course but not having my brain go haywire imaginigng me going right back to obese every time I'm having a meal out has not been terrible. I just had to work through it to get there and it, of course, took some time.
I think the impact of homeostasis is underappreciated, when it comes to the rare instance of eating over maintenance. Homestasis, loosely: Body likes things to stay where they are, or, body gets good at what we train it to do, reacts differently to unusual things. (Loosely. I said "loosely".)
It's common to let fear limit ourselves from eating over maintenance. I've even seen people - not in this thread, but on MFP - who treated maintenance calorie goal as some kind of magic threshold, that if they went even a little bit over, all was lost (well, regained), a slippery slope back to obesity. Psychologically . . . well, maybe: Could happen, I guess. Calorically? No way.
The most effective path to weight (re-)gain is steadily eating a little over TDEE, not super-rarely eating way over TDEE. "Rare" is probably important, though. Yes, rare instances can cause regain, in stair-step fashion, but the effect is smaller than many would assume.
I dislike in-line videos, so I won't link any (especially on someone else's thread), but Stephanie Buttermore has done some YouTube videos about the physiological effects of a rare, massively over maintenance calories day. (Warning: It's a little science-geeky, but aimed at a general audience.)
On YouTube, search for her video titled:
"What Happens After a Cheat Day? (Weight Gain, Bloating, Bodyfat, Blood Sugar)"
Particularly look at the "Fat Gain" section around 9:00.
She's eaten an estimated 8021 calories in a single day, which is 6421 calories above her estimated TDEE of 1600. But it takes energy to store food, and eating an unusual amount spikes NEAT (per research), so extra calories get burned, above normal TDEE. She outlines how she can estimate these things, based on research studies, and uses conservative methods (i.e., ones that would tend to over-estimate the fat gain).
Based on that analysis, her estimated fat gain is 0.57 pounds, from a surplus of 6421 calories. (From the raw 3500 calories = 1 pound fat, you'd expect 1.8 pounds of fat gain, but it doesn't actually work like that.) Clearly, these are estimates, but it's informative (and maybe reassuring?).
Also good is a video with the lab results of her participating in an overfeeding study, in which she eats 10,000 calories in one day, and has pre- and post-tests in a lab to see the effects measured as accurately as possible. That one is:
"10,000 Calorie Challenge Aftermath | Scientific Study Results | What Happened?"
Key interesting point: Her RMR from the day before the 10,000 calorie intake (measured in the best available way, via exhaled gases) was 1300 calories. The day after, her RMR was measured at 2100 calories. She (and her boyfriend) mention that the day after, her skin feels really hot, when it's usually cool.
Bodies are dynamic. Eating more causes burning more - not all of the extra eaten, but maybe a surprising amount.9 -
@wonderkindking thank you for the answer. Just couldn't wrap my mind around that calorie count for something I'd think of as a better choice. I'm getting the idea, I think. We can control it so much better at home, still eat enjoyable food, but cut out the glut of calories that we might get eating out. Thankfully, going out is not a top priority for me, but when I do, I just go ahead and enjoy it. I can fall into the 'wahwahwah, poor, poor me I'm the only person in the whole world that can't order what I want in the restaurant' trap pretty easily if I restrict myself when the idea was to enjoy.
@AnnPT77 interesting comments! Even this early on, I know that if I overeat by 1000's (like today) it never sets me back very far---at least if I don't fall into 'well I ruined it all now, might as well keep on' trap. Learning to talk myself down from that ledge has proven much better than avoiding ever having reason to be on it, for me.
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wunderkindking wrote: »I think fear of eating out/losing control of calories is one of those things that you kind of need to (carefully, for your own mental health and so as not to throw in the towel) do to move past. And I do think it's worth moving past, if eating out (or holidays or family dinners or what have you) are an occasionally but socially/culturally important part of your life.
Eating out FREQUENTLY the strategy for me changes. A couple of months a year I have a good week worth of days where every meal is some kind of fastfood. I know the calories in those things and I choose wisely. They also coincide with when my activity is much higher, buying me some buffer room, calorie wise.
But the 'go out, sit down, local place' thing? Twice a month is a lot for me. It's usually more like every other month. Yesterday was one of those. I'm pretty sure I ate well over 3,000 calories of food (steak and potato with both butter and sour cream but then peach cobbler and ice cream, rolls with cinnamon butter, and an alcoholic drink). Because I've done this stuff a while and I track my weight I know exactly that I'm going to go up 2lbs, maybe 3, and then it will drop back to well within the range I maintain/have been maintaining for a while.
More importantly, because I've done this a while I know I'm going to get right back to my normal life and food meaning it isn't the start of a spiral.
I actually finding eating out one of the EASIER things to manage food wise. Having to get dressed and GO SOMEWHERE to get it vs it being IN MY HOUSE WITH ME is just easier. No 'Oh well it's still there might as well finish it' thoughts to fight.
Mileages may vary of course but not having my brain go haywire imaginigng me going right back to obese every time I'm having a meal out has not been terrible. I just had to work through it to get there and it, of course, took some time.
I think the impact of homeostasis is underappreciated, when it comes to the rare instance of eating over maintenance. Homestasis, loosely: Body likes things to stay where they are, or, body gets good at what we train it to do, reacts differently to unusual things. (Loosely. I said "loosely".)
It's common to let fear limit ourselves from eating over maintenance. I've even seen people - not in this thread, but on MFP - who treated maintenance calorie goal as some kind of magic threshold, that if they went even a little bit over, all was lost (well, regained), a slippery slope back to obesity. Psychologically . . . well, maybe: Could happen, I guess. Calorically? No way.
The most effective path to weight (re-)gain is steadily eating a little over TDEE, not super-rarely eating way over TDEE. "Rare" is probably important, though. Yes, rare instances can cause regain, in stair-step fashion, but the effect is smaller than many would assume.
I dislike in-line videos, so I won't link any (especially on someone else's thread), but Stephanie Buttermore has done some YouTube videos about the physiological effects of a rare, massively over maintenance calories day. (Warning: It's a little science-geeky, but aimed at a general audience.)
On YouTube, search for her video titled:
"What Happens After a Cheat Day? (Weight Gain, Bloating, Bodyfat, Blood Sugar)"
Particularly look at the "Fat Gain" section around 9:00.
She's eaten an estimated 8021 calories in a single day, which is 6421 calories above her estimated TDEE of 1600. But it takes energy to store food, and eating an unusual amount spikes NEAT (per research), so extra calories get burned, above normal TDEE. She outlines how she can estimate these things, based on research studies, and uses conservative methods (i.e., ones that would tend to over-estimate the fat gain).
Based on that analysis, her estimated fat gain is 0.57 pounds, from a surplus of 6421 calories. (From the raw 3500 calories = 1 pound fat, you'd expect 1.8 pounds of fat gain, but it doesn't actually work like that.) Clearly, these are estimates, but it's informative (and maybe reassuring?).
Also good is a video with the lab results of her participating in an overfeeding study, in which she eats 10,000 calories in one day, and has pre- and post-tests in a lab to see the effects measured as accurately as possible. That one is:
"10,000 Calorie Challenge Aftermath | Scientific Study Results | What Happened?"
Key interesting point: Her RMR from the day before the 10,000 calorie intake (measured in the best available way, via exhaled gases) was 1300 calories. The day after, her RMR was measured at 2100 calories. She (and her boyfriend) mention that the day after, her skin feels really hot, when it's usually cool.
Bodies are dynamic. Eating more causes burning more - not all of the extra eaten, but maybe a surprising amount.
Exactly what my experience and thoughts are, honestly.
I've only been maintaining for 6 months - but it takes a LOT to get me out of that 123-125 range in *either* direction. So the range I maintain in isn't even wide (to my surprise).
Some of it is undoubtedly that I have reached a lifestyle balance/set of habits that maintains my weight here, minus pretty random, extreme, routine disruptions, and that I even unconsciously 'compensate' some for the rare eating 5,000 calorie days with things like wanting less food a day or two after.
But on a pure physiological basis I think (as you said) that there are limits to how much I can absorb, things that happen with my RMR and body temperature and so on. I suspect that to GAIN the weight you'd expect me to from going over by that 5K of calories I'd probably need to split that up with smaller overages over more days.
So the once a month average I eat out, I just eat what I want. If it's not a 'meal that is by necessity out' rather than a social event. Weirdly that feels very, very different to me. It's not a thing I care to invest the calories in so I'm probably picking the cheapest lowish calorie thing on the menu, then, because I"m just there to get fuel into me.
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Watched the you tube vidoe. This is really interesting and enlightening - I’n only just starting on this healthier life plan and have, in my MFP head, the need / will / determination to lose 80 lbs - so a big, long, road, with lots of bends, hills both down dale and up!
You are all such an inspiration and generous in giving your knowledge and experience.
I haven’t figured in any cheat days - though through my failures experiences I’ve (obviously) had several, but just not been able to stay the par
This data suggesting RMR and thermogenesis has got me thinking that as the weight drifts downwards - is pulled, shoved and cajoled! - factoring in a cheat day will be important at various points along the way - even if to figure out calories for eating at maintainence - At certain differnt weights - to reboot and keep me on this road to sexy smaller pants! Make this healthy plan sustainable
Way to go to point one….point two, three, four …. 🤔2 -
Eating a large amount of food doesnt bwunderkindking wrote: »I think fear of eating out/losing control of calories is one of those things that you kind of need to (carefully, for your own mental health and so as not to throw in the towel) do to move past. And I do think it's worth moving past, if eating out (or holidays or family dinners or what have you) are an occasionally but socially/culturally important part of your life.
Eating out FREQUENTLY the strategy for me changes. A couple of months a year I have a good week worth of days where every meal is some kind of fastfood. I know the calories in those things and I choose wisely. They also coincide with when my activity is much higher, buying me some buffer room, calorie wise.
But the 'go out, sit down, local place' thing? Twice a month is a lot for me. It's usually more like every other month. Yesterday was one of those. I'm pretty sure I ate well over 3,000 calories of food (steak and potato with both butter and sour cream but then peach cobbler and ice cream, rolls with cinnamon butter, and an alcoholic drink). Because I've done this stuff a while and I track my weight I know exactly that I'm going to go up 2lbs, maybe 3, and then it will drop back to well within the range I maintain/have been maintaining for a while.
More importantly, because I've done this a while I know I'm going to get right back to my normal life and food meaning it isn't the start of a spiral.
I actually finding eating out one of the EASIER things to manage food wise. Having to get dressed and GO SOMEWHERE to get it vs it being IN MY HOUSE WITH ME is just easier. No 'Oh well it's still there might as well finish it' thoughts to fight.
Mileages may vary of course but not having my brain go haywire imaginigng me going right back to obese every time I'm having a meal out has not been terrible. I just had to work through it to get there and it, of course, took some time.
I think the impact of homeostasis is underappreciated, when it comes to the rare instance of eating over maintenance. Homestasis, loosely: Body likes things to stay where they are, or, body gets good at what we train it to do, reacts differently to unusual things. (Loosely. I said "loosely".)
It's common to let fear limit ourselves from eating over maintenance. I've even seen people - not in this thread, but on MFP - who treated maintenance calorie goal as some kind of magic threshold, that if they went even a little bit over, all was lost (well, regained), a slippery slope back to obesity. Psychologically . . . well, maybe: Could happen, I guess. Calorically? No way.
The most effective path to weight (re-)gain is steadily eating a little over TDEE, not super-rarely eating way over TDEE. "Rare" is probably important, though. Yes, rare instances can cause regain, in stair-step fashion, but the effect is smaller than many would assume.
I dislike in-line videos, so I won't link any (especially on someone else's thread), but Stephanie Buttermore has done some YouTube videos about the physiological effects of a rare, massively over maintenance calories day. (Warning: It's a little science-geeky, but aimed at a general audience.)
On YouTube, search for her video titled:
"What Happens After a Cheat Day? (Weight Gain, Bloating, Bodyfat, Blood Sugar)"
Particularly look at the "Fat Gain" section around 9:00.
She's eaten an estimated 8021 calories in a single day, which is 6421 calories above her estimated TDEE of 1600. But it takes energy to store food, and eating an unusual amount spikes NEAT (per research), so extra calories get burned, above normal TDEE. She outlines how she can estimate these things, based on research studies, and uses conservative methods (i.e., ones that would tend to over-estimate the fat gain).
Based on that analysis, her estimated fat gain is 0.57 pounds, from a surplus of 6421 calories. (From the raw 3500 calories = 1 pound fat, you'd expect 1.8 pounds of fat gain, but it doesn't actually work like that.) Clearly, these are estimates, but it's informative (and maybe reassuring?).
Also good is a video with the lab results of her participating in an overfeeding study, in which she eats 10,000 calories in one day, and has pre- and post-tests in a lab to see the effects measured as accurately as possible. That one is:
"10,000 Calorie Challenge Aftermath | Scientific Study Results | What Happened?"
Key interesting point: Her RMR from the day before the 10,000 calorie intake (measured in the best available way, via exhaled gases) was 1300 calories. The day after, her RMR was measured at 2100 calories. She (and her boyfriend) mention that the day after, her skin feels really hot, when it's usually cool.
Bodies are dynamic. Eating more causes burning more - not all of the extra eaten, but maybe a surprising amount.
NEAT after extreme large consumption of food is small. It should never be used as an excuse to binge eat 4000+ calories. The best and most effective way to understand how YOUR body (not some youtuber) functions is to +/- 150-200 cal per day for a week and look at yourself and scale.0 -
Eating a large amount of food doesnt bwunderkindking wrote: »I think fear of eating out/losing control of calories is one of those things that you kind of need to (carefully, for your own mental health and so as not to throw in the towel) do to move past. And I do think it's worth moving past, if eating out (or holidays or family dinners or what have you) are an occasionally but socially/culturally important part of your life.
Eating out FREQUENTLY the strategy for me changes. A couple of months a year I have a good week worth of days where every meal is some kind of fastfood. I know the calories in those things and I choose wisely. They also coincide with when my activity is much higher, buying me some buffer room, calorie wise.
But the 'go out, sit down, local place' thing? Twice a month is a lot for me. It's usually more like every other month. Yesterday was one of those. I'm pretty sure I ate well over 3,000 calories of food (steak and potato with both butter and sour cream but then peach cobbler and ice cream, rolls with cinnamon butter, and an alcoholic drink). Because I've done this stuff a while and I track my weight I know exactly that I'm going to go up 2lbs, maybe 3, and then it will drop back to well within the range I maintain/have been maintaining for a while.
More importantly, because I've done this a while I know I'm going to get right back to my normal life and food meaning it isn't the start of a spiral.
I actually finding eating out one of the EASIER things to manage food wise. Having to get dressed and GO SOMEWHERE to get it vs it being IN MY HOUSE WITH ME is just easier. No 'Oh well it's still there might as well finish it' thoughts to fight.
Mileages may vary of course but not having my brain go haywire imaginigng me going right back to obese every time I'm having a meal out has not been terrible. I just had to work through it to get there and it, of course, took some time.
I think the impact of homeostasis is underappreciated, when it comes to the rare instance of eating over maintenance. Homestasis, loosely: Body likes things to stay where they are, or, body gets good at what we train it to do, reacts differently to unusual things. (Loosely. I said "loosely".)
It's common to let fear limit ourselves from eating over maintenance. I've even seen people - not in this thread, but on MFP - who treated maintenance calorie goal as some kind of magic threshold, that if they went even a little bit over, all was lost (well, regained), a slippery slope back to obesity. Psychologically . . . well, maybe: Could happen, I guess. Calorically? No way.
The most effective path to weight (re-)gain is steadily eating a little over TDEE, not super-rarely eating way over TDEE. "Rare" is probably important, though. Yes, rare instances can cause regain, in stair-step fashion, but the effect is smaller than many would assume.
I dislike in-line videos, so I won't link any (especially on someone else's thread), but Stephanie Buttermore has done some YouTube videos about the physiological effects of a rare, massively over maintenance calories day. (Warning: It's a little science-geeky, but aimed at a general audience.)
On YouTube, search for her video titled:
"What Happens After a Cheat Day? (Weight Gain, Bloating, Bodyfat, Blood Sugar)"
Particularly look at the "Fat Gain" section around 9:00.
She's eaten an estimated 8021 calories in a single day, which is 6421 calories above her estimated TDEE of 1600. But it takes energy to store food, and eating an unusual amount spikes NEAT (per research), so extra calories get burned, above normal TDEE. She outlines how she can estimate these things, based on research studies, and uses conservative methods (i.e., ones that would tend to over-estimate the fat gain).
Based on that analysis, her estimated fat gain is 0.57 pounds, from a surplus of 6421 calories. (From the raw 3500 calories = 1 pound fat, you'd expect 1.8 pounds of fat gain, but it doesn't actually work like that.) Clearly, these are estimates, but it's informative (and maybe reassuring?).
Also good is a video with the lab results of her participating in an overfeeding study, in which she eats 10,000 calories in one day, and has pre- and post-tests in a lab to see the effects measured as accurately as possible. That one is:
"10,000 Calorie Challenge Aftermath | Scientific Study Results | What Happened?"
Key interesting point: Her RMR from the day before the 10,000 calorie intake (measured in the best available way, via exhaled gases) was 1300 calories. The day after, her RMR was measured at 2100 calories. She (and her boyfriend) mention that the day after, her skin feels really hot, when it's usually cool.
Bodies are dynamic. Eating more causes burning more - not all of the extra eaten, but maybe a surprising amount.
NEAT after extreme large consumption of food is small. It should never be used as an excuse to binge eat 4000+ calories. The best and most effective way to understand how YOUR body (not some youtuber) functions is to +/- 150-200 cal per day for a week and look at yourself and scale.
Looking at me this weekend says that eating roughly 4000 calories above maintenance resulted in me weighing 2lbs heavier the evening of the overage and 1lb LIGHTER THAN I STARTED 24 hours later.
I lost 80ish lbs and have been in maintenance 6 months and my consistent pattern of eating out once a month, not caring sticking to a calorie limit on holidays, birthdays, and vacation has born this out time and again.
Will admit it took FOUR days to lose the extra SEVEN pounds of weight I gained over a 3 day weekend once though. ...then I lost another pound below where I started, because it's just what my body does.
Personalized data is important.
Rigidity however is not. Consistency MOST of the time, yes. EVERY DAY FOREVER, no. No one's getting fat on eating over their calories once a month.7 -
NEAT after extreme large consumption of food is small. It should never be used as an excuse to binge eat 4000+ calories. The best and most effective way to understand how YOUR body (not some youtuber) functions is to +/- 150-200 cal per day for a week and look at yourself and scale.
Respectfully disagree. Life, celebrations, holidays happen , and then there’s those days that pizza /sliders / BBQ is just too tempting to resist.
Knowing that the occasional Ode to Joy of Food happens and will not derail me is a lot more “liveable” than trying to maintain a strict “ +/- 150-200 cal per day” range.
I now sincerely believe our words define us. Binge implies something weak and shameful, a failure of food and willpower. So freaking what if I had a day or two of joyful abandonment. I got right back on plan, the plan and habits that experience have shown work for me.
I’d rather give myself the grace and opportunity to have some flex days than be hammering away at a specific goal day in and day out, and I’ve done this long enough to know it’s gonna happen and won’t be the end of the world when it does happen.
Relinquishing food guilt has been relevatory. It’s been mighty dang hard to get to that point, though.9 -
I’m going to throw myself out there as a deliberate n=1.
I’ve had an unusually high calorie week for a re-feed, and also had two days substantially over, as shown below, so have averaged 3650 calories per day for the last seven days.
I’ve been averaging 134-135 pounds the past few months. I just weighed in at 139.6 following a 6500 calorie day, (which, to be fair, may have been grossly underestimated even at that. *burp*)
I bet by Saturday, I will be back to 135, even with those numbers, if I fall back to my normal habits (my diary is open) for the next five days, with no change in eating or workout habits.
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Eating a large amount of food doesnt bwunderkindking wrote: »I think fear of eating out/losing control of calories is one of those things that you kind of need to (carefully, for your own mental health and so as not to throw in the towel) do to move past. And I do think it's worth moving past, if eating out (or holidays or family dinners or what have you) are an occasionally but socially/culturally important part of your life.
Eating out FREQUENTLY the strategy for me changes. A couple of months a year I have a good week worth of days where every meal is some kind of fastfood. I know the calories in those things and I choose wisely. They also coincide with when my activity is much higher, buying me some buffer room, calorie wise.
But the 'go out, sit down, local place' thing? Twice a month is a lot for me. It's usually more like every other month. Yesterday was one of those. I'm pretty sure I ate well over 3,000 calories of food (steak and potato with both butter and sour cream but then peach cobbler and ice cream, rolls with cinnamon butter, and an alcoholic drink). Because I've done this stuff a while and I track my weight I know exactly that I'm going to go up 2lbs, maybe 3, and then it will drop back to well within the range I maintain/have been maintaining for a while.
More importantly, because I've done this a while I know I'm going to get right back to my normal life and food meaning it isn't the start of a spiral.
I actually finding eating out one of the EASIER things to manage food wise. Having to get dressed and GO SOMEWHERE to get it vs it being IN MY HOUSE WITH ME is just easier. No 'Oh well it's still there might as well finish it' thoughts to fight.
Mileages may vary of course but not having my brain go haywire imaginigng me going right back to obese every time I'm having a meal out has not been terrible. I just had to work through it to get there and it, of course, took some time.
I think the impact of homeostasis is underappreciated, when it comes to the rare instance of eating over maintenance. Homestasis, loosely: Body likes things to stay where they are, or, body gets good at what we train it to do, reacts differently to unusual things. (Loosely. I said "loosely".)
It's common to let fear limit ourselves from eating over maintenance. I've even seen people - not in this thread, but on MFP - who treated maintenance calorie goal as some kind of magic threshold, that if they went even a little bit over, all was lost (well, regained), a slippery slope back to obesity. Psychologically . . . well, maybe: Could happen, I guess. Calorically? No way.
The most effective path to weight (re-)gain is steadily eating a little over TDEE, not super-rarely eating way over TDEE. "Rare" is probably important, though. Yes, rare instances can cause regain, in stair-step fashion, but the effect is smaller than many would assume.
I dislike in-line videos, so I won't link any (especially on someone else's thread), but Stephanie Buttermore has done some YouTube videos about the physiological effects of a rare, massively over maintenance calories day. (Warning: It's a little science-geeky, but aimed at a general audience.)
On YouTube, search for her video titled:
"What Happens After a Cheat Day? (Weight Gain, Bloating, Bodyfat, Blood Sugar)"
Particularly look at the "Fat Gain" section around 9:00.
She's eaten an estimated 8021 calories in a single day, which is 6421 calories above her estimated TDEE of 1600. But it takes energy to store food, and eating an unusual amount spikes NEAT (per research), so extra calories get burned, above normal TDEE. She outlines how she can estimate these things, based on research studies, and uses conservative methods (i.e., ones that would tend to over-estimate the fat gain).
Based on that analysis, her estimated fat gain is 0.57 pounds, from a surplus of 6421 calories. (From the raw 3500 calories = 1 pound fat, you'd expect 1.8 pounds of fat gain, but it doesn't actually work like that.) Clearly, these are estimates, but it's informative (and maybe reassuring?).
Also good is a video with the lab results of her participating in an overfeeding study, in which she eats 10,000 calories in one day, and has pre- and post-tests in a lab to see the effects measured as accurately as possible. That one is:
"10,000 Calorie Challenge Aftermath | Scientific Study Results | What Happened?"
Key interesting point: Her RMR from the day before the 10,000 calorie intake (measured in the best available way, via exhaled gases) was 1300 calories. The day after, her RMR was measured at 2100 calories. She (and her boyfriend) mention that the day after, her skin feels really hot, when it's usually cool.
Bodies are dynamic. Eating more causes burning more - not all of the extra eaten, but maybe a surprising amount.
NEAT after extreme large consumption of food is small. It should never be used as an excuse to binge eat 4000+ calories. The best and most effective way to understand how YOUR body (not some youtuber) functions is to +/- 150-200 cal per day for a week and look at yourself and scale.
If staying +/- 150-200 works well for you, keeps you happy, that's great. Claim that facts should "never be an excuse" for behavior you don't personally favor . . . that's taking it a little far, IMO. (As an aside, whether something is a "binge" is IMO more about the psychological motivations, the keeping or loss of control, not about the calorie level per se.)
No one is making "excuses", that I can see. I'm saying that people ought to understand the actual probable implications of a rare large overage - whether a choice or a slip-up in their own view - and evaluate it based on facts, not catastrophize and beat themselves up about it. That person - the one who did the eating - can consider whether the impact was worth it, or not . . . to them.
Yes, if they watch the scale over a period of days, and with an understanding of how water retention and digestive contents affect the scale in the short run, they'll learn how their individual body behaves, and that's the most useful information.
I hope you understand that when Buttermore talks about NEAT increase, she's basing what she says on research, not simply feelings? Yes, the NEAT increase (+ the RMR/BMR increase) does not zero out a large over-maintenance sudden, rare calorie intake - not close. I said that. But some NEAT increase is part of the homeostasis mechanisms, and it makes the impact less than "3500 calories over maintenance = 1 pound fat gain" would suggest. A pound is the top limit from 3500 calories over maintenance, the probable value is less (and probably varies individually - though that's a guess).
If you prefer to stay in a narrow calorie range, do that.
I prefer to have occasional higher-calorie indulgent days (not 10,000 calories, in my case). I don't call them "cheat days", I call them "how I prefer to live my live, in year 6+ of successfully maintaining a healthy body weight, after previous decades of obesity", i.e., part of my plan for a happy life.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10603949/big-overfeed-ruins-everything-nope/p1
Other people can do as they choose. Facts help people make decisions about personal choices. If you want to argue the facts, that belongs over in Debate, not here. This is Spring's thread. I won't debate this further here (though since others are chatting about it, I may do that).
Apologies for unintentionally creating controversy on your very good and useful thread, @springlering62. I'll cheerfully request this post be deleted, or the earlier homeostasis post, if you prefer.3 -
wunderkindking wrote: »Eating a large amount of food doesnt bwunderkindking wrote: »I think fear of eating out/losing control of calories is one of those things that you kind of need to (carefully, for your own mental health and so as not to throw in the towel) do to move past. And I do think it's worth moving past, if eating out (or holidays or family dinners or what have you) are an occasionally but socially/culturally important part of your life.
Eating out FREQUENTLY the strategy for me changes. A couple of months a year I have a good week worth of days where every meal is some kind of fastfood. I know the calories in those things and I choose wisely. They also coincide with when my activity is much higher, buying me some buffer room, calorie wise.
But the 'go out, sit down, local place' thing? Twice a month is a lot for me. It's usually more like every other month. Yesterday was one of those. I'm pretty sure I ate well over 3,000 calories of food (steak and potato with both butter and sour cream but then peach cobbler and ice cream, rolls with cinnamon butter, and an alcoholic drink). Because I've done this stuff a while and I track my weight I know exactly that I'm going to go up 2lbs, maybe 3, and then it will drop back to well within the range I maintain/have been maintaining for a while.
More importantly, because I've done this a while I know I'm going to get right back to my normal life and food meaning it isn't the start of a spiral.
I actually finding eating out one of the EASIER things to manage food wise. Having to get dressed and GO SOMEWHERE to get it vs it being IN MY HOUSE WITH ME is just easier. No 'Oh well it's still there might as well finish it' thoughts to fight.
Mileages may vary of course but not having my brain go haywire imaginigng me going right back to obese every time I'm having a meal out has not been terrible. I just had to work through it to get there and it, of course, took some time.
I think the impact of homeostasis is underappreciated, when it comes to the rare instance of eating over maintenance. Homestasis, loosely: Body likes things to stay where they are, or, body gets good at what we train it to do, reacts differently to unusual things. (Loosely. I said "loosely".)
It's common to let fear limit ourselves from eating over maintenance. I've even seen people - not in this thread, but on MFP - who treated maintenance calorie goal as some kind of magic threshold, that if they went even a little bit over, all was lost (well, regained), a slippery slope back to obesity. Psychologically . . . well, maybe: Could happen, I guess. Calorically? No way.
The most effective path to weight (re-)gain is steadily eating a little over TDEE, not super-rarely eating way over TDEE. "Rare" is probably important, though. Yes, rare instances can cause regain, in stair-step fashion, but the effect is smaller than many would assume.
I dislike in-line videos, so I won't link any (especially on someone else's thread), but Stephanie Buttermore has done some YouTube videos about the physiological effects of a rare, massively over maintenance calories day. (Warning: It's a little science-geeky, but aimed at a general audience.)
On YouTube, search for her video titled:
"What Happens After a Cheat Day? (Weight Gain, Bloating, Bodyfat, Blood Sugar)"
Particularly look at the "Fat Gain" section around 9:00.
She's eaten an estimated 8021 calories in a single day, which is 6421 calories above her estimated TDEE of 1600. But it takes energy to store food, and eating an unusual amount spikes NEAT (per research), so extra calories get burned, above normal TDEE. She outlines how she can estimate these things, based on research studies, and uses conservative methods (i.e., ones that would tend to over-estimate the fat gain).
Based on that analysis, her estimated fat gain is 0.57 pounds, from a surplus of 6421 calories. (From the raw 3500 calories = 1 pound fat, you'd expect 1.8 pounds of fat gain, but it doesn't actually work like that.) Clearly, these are estimates, but it's informative (and maybe reassuring?).
Also good is a video with the lab results of her participating in an overfeeding study, in which she eats 10,000 calories in one day, and has pre- and post-tests in a lab to see the effects measured as accurately as possible. That one is:
"10,000 Calorie Challenge Aftermath | Scientific Study Results | What Happened?"
Key interesting point: Her RMR from the day before the 10,000 calorie intake (measured in the best available way, via exhaled gases) was 1300 calories. The day after, her RMR was measured at 2100 calories. She (and her boyfriend) mention that the day after, her skin feels really hot, when it's usually cool.
Bodies are dynamic. Eating more causes burning more - not all of the extra eaten, but maybe a surprising amount.
NEAT after extreme large consumption of food is small. It should never be used as an excuse to binge eat 4000+ calories. The best and most effective way to understand how YOUR body (not some youtuber) functions is to +/- 150-200 cal per day for a week and look at yourself and scale.
Looking at me this weekend says that eating roughly 4000 calories above maintenance resulted in me weighing 2lbs heavier the evening of the overage and 1lb LIGHTER THAN I STARTED 24 hours later.
I lost 80ish lbs and have been in maintenance 6 months and my consistent pattern of eating out once a month, not caring sticking to a calorie limit on holidays, birthdays, and vacation has born this out time and again.
Will admit it took FOUR days to lose the extra SEVEN pounds of weight I gained over a 3 day weekend once though. ...then I lost another pound below where I started, because it's just what my body does.
Personalized data is important.
Rigidity however is not. Consistency MOST of the time, yes. EVERY DAY FOREVER, no. No one's getting fat on eating over their calories once a month.
Not that exactly, but I did manage some sloooooooww stair-step regain a few years back (still within a healthy weight range, like around BMI 23, but above where I preferred to be, which is around BMI 21). In Spring, I used to take weekend trips to watch college rowing meets, and would eat more at the restaurants and such when we traveled. So, couple of days reasonably well over maintenance, maybe twice a month. (I'd have to guess how far over maintenance, too long ago to have the data handy - probably 2000-4000 over maintenance for 2 days?) Usually a good bit of walking on those weekends, but also many hours of car-riding.
The pattern (in the weight trending app) was the expected spike right after each weekend, and a tiny increase in the maintenance weight range that remained (maybe quarter pound, looking at the trend line?). Rinse and repeat, across several Spring seasons, eventually the stair-steps go too far.
I'm back in the BMI 21-ish range again now, though, after creeping weight back down super-slowly across the course of 12-18 months during the pandemic.
IMO, it's useful to realistically understand the impact of both occasional small overages, and of patient small reductions. Facts (and factual experience) FTW. I won't speak for others, but emotionalism, moralizing and melodrama about food/eating - those don't work for me.5 -
@AnnPT77 I was bragging to someone this morning about this community and how much I’ve learned here. Please, comment away.
While I know I’ll be counting calories forever, and taking care not to put weight back on, there’s some prospects that are absolutely bleak if you don’t allow yourself a break.
It kind of reminds me of my spin class this morning. It was only my third, and I can’t “hold my watts steady” to save my life. But steadiness will happen with practice, and I fully expect to fall off the thing a few times until I remember to hit Full Stop.7 -
The fact of the matter is that I pretty fully believe that all or nothing thinking - stay within a narrow calorie range forever, or you're obese, for example - is a set up for failure.
I don't *binge* and I don't cheat.
But life happens. I live in a culture where food is a major part of socializing, bonding, and celebrating. Now, you can use those and go too far/too often. A lot of my socializing has gradually shifted over the time since I was obese to include more ACTIVITIES - paddleboarding, hiking, walking, bike rides, board game nights, etc - that are free from any food element, but.
I'm not giving up a once a month/every other month date night and I'm not going to make it some fraught thing. I'm not going to visit my mom on thanksgiving and not eat food she knows I love. I'm not going to NOT roast marshmallows and make smores when I'm on a camping trip.
Those are big, inherent, parts of my relationships with people I love and just... things in my life that I love. If the option was 'never go over your tdee calories by more than 200 again' or 'be obese', I'll be honest. I'd STILL choose the obesity.
Not because I value food more than health but because I value what the freedom to have that time wtihout thinking about it with people I love brings to my quality of life and it is more than the 80 or so pounds I lost took away from it. Now, given the option of 'watch what I eat 98% of the time or be obese--" well I made that call and it's why I weigh 123ish pounds, you know?16
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