You Can Gain Muscle On A Calorie Deficit!!

I'd say it's pretty hard to improve your bench press 150lbs (285lbs from 135lbs) just by technique

I'd argue that 135 wasn't necessarily a tremendously heavy working weight for him whereas his top end of 300 now probably is. Lots of people start out at a set of plates just because.

Less efficient? According to many here I didnt gain any LM. busting my butt in the gym over the past 13 months, just gained all of it from being lazy, getting fat and exposed it as I lost the fat. My goal is to bulk and cut until I reach 220 lbs. and that is probably gonna take a couple years. Wouldnt it be more efficient ( since It is alot easier for me to gain and cut fat then it is build lean muscle) to continue to lift, eat all the food, drink all the beer I want and just cut once? I mean if I can gain as much LM. from just being lazy and getting fat as some people claimed I have, Imagine how much muscle I can gain from lifting at the same time as gaining fat. (not saying that niner and the others are correct, just asking?)

That's being pretty extreme, and is not the main point that a lot of us were trying to make. Having a smart lifting routine when cutting helps you to maintain lean muscle mass on a deficit. That's extremely important as your body tends to cannibalize muscle mass when you're cutting and you end up with the skinny fat physique. Additionally, the problem with the 'gain a ton and cut once' plan is that there's only so much muscle you can gain on a bulk (and only so much you can retain on a cut). If you bulk up to 400 lbs, sure you'll have a lot of muscle, but you'll have also taken on a lot of fat too. When you cut you'll likely still be at a pretty high BF%. Doing smaller bulks and cuts will have you gaining more muscle during your bulk and losing less muscle on the cut. Ultimately the cycles will have you at a much lower BF% with more muscle mass than you would have otherwise.

I can't repeat enough, just because you may not directly increase muscle mass on a cut (or only increase it marginally) the value of strength training for muscle retention cannot be overstated. Keeping muscle mass on a cut is tremendously important. I recognize that 'staying the same' on a cut really feels like you're getting screwed since you've worked so hard. Perhaps if you looked at it this way: "If all I had done was eat at a deficit, I would have still reached 204 lbs, but I wouldn't look anywhere near as good as I do now. Since my body would have naturally pillaged a LOT more muscle mass than it did on my cut, I've essentially 'gained muscle' by not losing any on a deficit"

Again I reference the 4 points I made previously. It's possible (I'd go so far as to say probable) that you gained some muscle mass as a result of newbie/obese gains (not a lot, but some). You've already agreed with me that you would've gained much more muscle if you were eating at a surplus. You are obviously proud of the way you look now (and it is impressive) and you're seeing solid strength gains as well. Why does it matter if the weight of your muscles increased by the large amount you feel it did rather than the much more moderate amount that is, frankly, more likely?

I have been working out with a trainer. I have lost 13kgs (28Ibs). I do a lot of weight training, as well as cardio. I have been this weight many times before, but never ever this small at this weight. I think that the weight training is very important. I don't have the "hang" under my arms. I believe that I am building a great body underneath this fat, and when I finally get it off, I will not have to deal with the flab.

Again, as I've mentioned previously:

1) I don't think you gained as much muscle mass as you think while you were losing weight. I have no doubt that you gained some (ie newbie gains and gains while very overweight) but I sincerely think it was a lot less than you may believe. That does NOT mean you haven't been making progress (far from it) and you are obviously much stronger now than you were then. Strength gains don't necessarily translate to muscle mass gains. If they did power lifting comps wouldn't have weight classes.

The entire point of my thread was that even though you are eating at a deficit, It is still beneficial to implement a lifting program regardless of the LM. muscle gains are newbie gains or not. I understand about pwer lifters competing in weight classes, football players, MMA fighters, boxers etc. train the same way.

2) I think you gained more lean mass while you were gaining weight than you think. As in (1), muscle mass increases don't directly translate to strength increases. Also if you had bulked with the intention of building muscle you would have gained a lot more muscle and a lot less fat during that time.

Like I said there is no doubt if I had bulked I would have gained alot more LM.

I don't think anyone is honestly saying that you're actively trying to 'lie' or 'cheat' or whatever. I think a LOT of it has to do with the belief that you are mistaken in your assessments of muscle loss/gain. At the end of the day it doesn't matter. You are happy with your progress thus far, you are going to start on a bulk cycle anyway to continue progressing. If you think you gained 25 lbs of muscle (I'm just throwing out numbers to make a point) and we think you gained 5 lbs of muscle and that the 20 lb discrepancy is due to the relative difference in size after losing all of that fat, what does it matter which one it is?

Just for the record im not saying I gained 25 lbs of muscle while on a defict. But I didnt gain 20lbs of muscle from getting fat either. Before I got fat I ate the exact same way as I did when I got fat. I just played a ton of basketball, hockey and baseball.
Wouldnt I have also gained LM. while eating at a huge surplus playing those sports (but didnt) as I did when I stopped and got fat? My diet never changed, just my activity level, When I stopped being active, I started getting fat. infact, in my before pic. I had already started gaining fat. If I gained as much muscle from getting fat as you claim, How comes in the pic. below from Oct-2011, my clothes look way to big and just hanging off me everywhere except for my shoulders and lats where my shirt is very tight? When I go to my house in FL. I was so acustomed to just grabbing my back and heading to the airport that I kept forgeting to pack new clothes so I kept wearing the same clothes that I had in FL.

sorry but i disagree.. unless you have scientific evidence proving this.. i could find about 999999999 bodybuidlers that disagree

strength gains is due to neural adaptation'

the appearance of gaining muscle is because of lower bf.

there are some ways to gain muscle on a cut...

such as if your new.. but for a experience lifter.. sorry its not going to happen.

What about the 150lbs bench press improvement? He started at 135lbs. I wish I coulld improve that much w/o gaining any mass.

I think he provided as much info as reasonably obtainable. And it gets dismissed becuase it's not a quadrouple blind, havard funded test.