Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
-
Bry_Lander wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Activities like gymnastics, golf, high diving, etc., can be engaged in totally alone, they just happen to be done collectively in competition.Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.
Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports
You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.
Not complicated
A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?
You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.
you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"
Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)
What ambiguity?
Physical exertion/skill + competition = sport
The “defense” bit is a fictional add-on of your own making.
Every sports organization, including the Olympics themselves, as well as the general populace all disagree with your claim that direct defense is a requirement of sport.
Perhaps where there is no one governing body to offer a single definition, it would be helpful to look to the whole host of authoritative bodies which happen to all agree that a sport does not require the opportunity to defend against one’s opponent.
Use some critical thinking, man.
You didn’t like my critical thinking and labeled it as “fiction”, so I’m thinking that analysis resulting in a conclusion that conflicts with your opinion is fiction and within is “critical thinking”.
The beauty of this topic (for some people) is that there is no correct answer that can be declared by any objective authority - if the International Hopscotch Organization declares hopscotch a “sport”, do you think that just maybe it is because they have an interest in declaring their activity a sport?
The bit about a defensive element being required to qualify as a sport doesn’t exist in any accepted definition of the word “sport.”
Thus, I can only derive that you invented this qualifier yourself which makes it fiction.
As for your critical thinking being fiction, that’s not what I said but considering that I’ve seen no evidence that you’ve thought critically about this debate, yeah, I’ll roll with it.
Also, it’s not just the PGA declaring golf a sport. It’s the Olympic committee and every sports organization in the history of mankind that disagrees with your assertion.
Also the general population.
I realize there is a lot of comfort in groupthink. Discussion about the subjective can be painful, but conceptual thinking can be really gratifying if you just give it a chance. In this case, the stakes are very low, and the consequences of considering different opinions are few (gasp, different opinions on subjective concepts?)
What constitutes a sport is completely subjective and therefore can be defined individually - if it doesn’t have defense, it is just a competitive activity. My apologies to the World Rock Paper Scissors Society, professional ostrich racers, competitive square dancing leagues, the winner of the pie eating contest at the county fair last summer, and the “general public” and all of its wisdom...
In other words, you want to create your own definition of a pre-existing word and if I disagree then I’m just seeking the comfort of groupthink.
Lol. K.
I did not create my own definition, here is the definition of a sport that was posted pages ago:
sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
As I stated, I interpret "competes against another or others" as actually being in physical opposition, defending against one another and able to disrupt your opponent. Not taking turns swinging a club in golf and seeing who has the least amount of strokes, not performing a routine in a pool by yourself and then comparing a judge's score to other people performing a routine by themselves in a pool in synchronized swimming, not alternatively throwing darts at a board. Competing against another is attempting to block a shot or steal the ball in basketball, throwing a pitch by a batter or tagging someone out at home plate in baseball, a goaltender blocking a shot in soccer, etc.
And as has been made abundantly clear, you are the only one who has this interpretation. Thus it is your own subjective, editorial opinion and not shared by any objective source. I would hope it would be evident to you almost everyone who has posted has disagreed. Although you gaslight that as "groupthink".
I once heard a wise man say, when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, you are wrong. But hey, feel free to live in your own little world. If nothing else, I will give you credit for amazing stamina in sticking to an unfounded opinion that is unsupported by any objective source.
1) It should be fairly obvious at this point that democracy/the majority/mob rule doesn't always determine the optimal solution.
2) The opposition to my opinion is not supported by an objective source, either, because again, this is a discussion about a subjective topic. It is conceptual. It is okay to have a separate interpretation, the Earth will still continue to spin if we don't all agree on a common definition of something.Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Apparently not. Unless someone is trying to tackle you while you get your score?
Tackling is actually a penalty in some sports, you can't really get away with it in soccer, hockey, baseball, etc. But they are still sports because they are defending each other in different ways. Lawn darts, competitive fishing, and beer pong? No defense whatsoever, and not sports...
Yeah, I guess the International Olympic Committee wouldn't be considered an objective source by anyone. Strong logic there.
The Olympic Committee stopped recognizing cricket, lacrosse, and baseball as sports - so did they cease to become sports?8 -
JaydedMiss wrote: »This thread is great xD
Lets see what i can think of...Based mainly on threads iv seen today...
1. People looking for support buddies as the first thing they do are pretty much the most likely to fail. Their putting their success on other people and when that doesnt work they can then blame others and never have to put the effort in to build self dedication and self support. And then they feel fine about giving up, Because "other people let them down" not themselves. Its excuses.
2. 1200 calories a day can be just fine even for young active females. Im glad i started with 1200 and slowly increased as i lost and i did just fine instead of reverse order.
3. wearing perfume/cologne at the gym is disgusting. Dont *kitten* do it.
4. Fast food is delicious, And if im going to get it i will NEVER even attempt the salad. Im not going to pretend im being healthy when im eating fast food. IIFYM and all the arguements about fast food fitting in a healthy diet, Yeah sure. But that doesnt make it "healthy" ...nor unhealthy, Just my unpopular opinion
Besides, Fast food salads are often worse, But thats not why i wouldnt bother lol
5. People who post on threads completely unrelated about IIFYM and how wonderful it is annoy me. I get it if its asked or the conversation calls for it, But otherwise your just being annoying. Good for you we get it. You guys know the type.
6. Motivation will fail and so will you if you try to rely on it. Motivation is an excuse people use.
Yes to #5
. 1 -
You're doing it wrong :laugh:Bry_Lander wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Activities like gymnastics, golf, high diving, etc., can be engaged in totally alone, they just happen to be done collectively in competition.Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.
Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports
You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.
Not complicated
A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?
You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.
you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"
Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)
What ambiguity?
Physical exertion/skill + competition = sport
The “defense” bit is a fictional add-on of your own making.
Every sports organization, including the Olympics themselves, as well as the general populace all disagree with your claim that direct defense is a requirement of sport.
Perhaps where there is no one governing body to offer a single definition, it would be helpful to look to the whole host of authoritative bodies which happen to all agree that a sport does not require the opportunity to defend against one’s opponent.
Use some critical thinking, man.
You didn’t like my critical thinking and labeled it as “fiction”, so I’m thinking that analysis resulting in a conclusion that conflicts with your opinion is fiction and within is “critical thinking”.
The beauty of this topic (for some people) is that there is no correct answer that can be declared by any objective authority - if the International Hopscotch Organization declares hopscotch a “sport”, do you think that just maybe it is because they have an interest in declaring their activity a sport?
The bit about a defensive element being required to qualify as a sport doesn’t exist in any accepted definition of the word “sport.”
Thus, I can only derive that you invented this qualifier yourself which makes it fiction.
As for your critical thinking being fiction, that’s not what I said but considering that I’ve seen no evidence that you’ve thought critically about this debate, yeah, I’ll roll with it.
Also, it’s not just the PGA declaring golf a sport. It’s the Olympic committee and every sports organization in the history of mankind that disagrees with your assertion.
Also the general population.
I realize there is a lot of comfort in groupthink. Discussion about the subjective can be painful, but conceptual thinking can be really gratifying if you just give it a chance. In this case, the stakes are very low, and the consequences of considering different opinions are few (gasp, different opinions on subjective concepts?)
What constitutes a sport is completely subjective and therefore can be defined individually - if it doesn’t have defense, it is just a competitive activity. My apologies to the World Rock Paper Scissors Society, professional ostrich racers, competitive square dancing leagues, the winner of the pie eating contest at the county fair last summer, and the “general public” and all of its wisdom...
In other words, you want to create your own definition of a pre-existing word and if I disagree then I’m just seeking the comfort of groupthink.
Lol. K.
I did not create my own definition, here is the definition of a sport that was posted pages ago:
sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
As I stated, I interpret "competes against another or others" as actually being in physical opposition, defending against one another and able to disrupt your opponent. Not taking turns swinging a club in golf and seeing who has the least amount of strokes, not performing a routine in a pool by yourself and then comparing a judge's score to other people performing a routine by themselves in a pool in synchronized swimming, not alternatively throwing darts at a board. Competing against another is attempting to block a shot or steal the ball in basketball, throwing a pitch by a batter or tagging someone out at home plate in baseball, a goaltender blocking a shot in soccer, etc.
And as has been made abundantly clear, you are the only one who has this interpretation. Thus it is your own subjective, editorial opinion and not shared by any objective source. I would hope it would be evident to you almost everyone who has posted has disagreed. Although you gaslight that as "groupthink".
I once heard a wise man say, when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, you are wrong. But hey, feel free to live in your own little world. If nothing else, I will give you credit for amazing stamina in sticking to an unfounded opinion that is unsupported by any objective source.
1) It should be fairly obvious at this point that democracy/the majority/mob rule doesn't always determine the optimal solution.
2) The opposition to my opinion is not supported by an objective source, either, because again, this is a discussion about a subjective topic. It is conceptual. It is okay to have a separate interpretation, the Earth will still continue to spin if we don't all agree on a common definition of something.Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Apparently not. Unless someone is trying to tackle you while you get your score?
Tackling is actually a penalty in some sports, you can't really get away with it in soccer, hockey, baseball, etc. But they are still sports because they are defending each other in different ways. Lawn darts, competitive fishing, and beer pong? No defense whatsoever, and not sports...
9 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Some games are not sports. They may require skill, and a bit of fitness but a sport? Worthy of the Olympics? Nah.
Games IMO:- nascar or other race car or motor bike sports
- golf
- ping pong
- bowling
- curling (that was hard for a Canadian to admit)
- baseball
- horse riding or jumping
- crickett
Almost sport like:
diving
ski jumping
While yoga is not a sport, it is an exercise that destroys me well.
Sports don't necessitate fitness, they necessitate skill. In many sports, a level of fitness is required to reach the requisite level of skill, but not always. I think what's off is your definition of "sport".
The traditional definition of sport are combat/warrior skills performed in a nonlethal/recreational format.
that seems like an awfully archaic definition of "sport."
Is ESPN willing to broadcast it? There's a modern definition of it. Only problem is that includes poker and video game playing too, those could be sports based on definitions on this thread. Chess?0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »
You're doing it wrong :laugh:Bry_Lander wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Activities like gymnastics, golf, high diving, etc., can be engaged in totally alone, they just happen to be done collectively in competition.Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.
Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports
You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.
Not complicated
A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?
You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.
you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"
Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)
What ambiguity?
Physical exertion/skill + competition = sport
The “defense” bit is a fictional add-on of your own making.
Every sports organization, including the Olympics themselves, as well as the general populace all disagree with your claim that direct defense is a requirement of sport.
Perhaps where there is no one governing body to offer a single definition, it would be helpful to look to the whole host of authoritative bodies which happen to all agree that a sport does not require the opportunity to defend against one’s opponent.
Use some critical thinking, man.
You didn’t like my critical thinking and labeled it as “fiction”, so I’m thinking that analysis resulting in a conclusion that conflicts with your opinion is fiction and within is “critical thinking”.
The beauty of this topic (for some people) is that there is no correct answer that can be declared by any objective authority - if the International Hopscotch Organization declares hopscotch a “sport”, do you think that just maybe it is because they have an interest in declaring their activity a sport?
The bit about a defensive element being required to qualify as a sport doesn’t exist in any accepted definition of the word “sport.”
Thus, I can only derive that you invented this qualifier yourself which makes it fiction.
As for your critical thinking being fiction, that’s not what I said but considering that I’ve seen no evidence that you’ve thought critically about this debate, yeah, I’ll roll with it.
Also, it’s not just the PGA declaring golf a sport. It’s the Olympic committee and every sports organization in the history of mankind that disagrees with your assertion.
Also the general population.
I realize there is a lot of comfort in groupthink. Discussion about the subjective can be painful, but conceptual thinking can be really gratifying if you just give it a chance. In this case, the stakes are very low, and the consequences of considering different opinions are few (gasp, different opinions on subjective concepts?)
What constitutes a sport is completely subjective and therefore can be defined individually - if it doesn’t have defense, it is just a competitive activity. My apologies to the World Rock Paper Scissors Society, professional ostrich racers, competitive square dancing leagues, the winner of the pie eating contest at the county fair last summer, and the “general public” and all of its wisdom...
In other words, you want to create your own definition of a pre-existing word and if I disagree then I’m just seeking the comfort of groupthink.
Lol. K.
I did not create my own definition, here is the definition of a sport that was posted pages ago:
sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
As I stated, I interpret "competes against another or others" as actually being in physical opposition, defending against one another and able to disrupt your opponent. Not taking turns swinging a club in golf and seeing who has the least amount of strokes, not performing a routine in a pool by yourself and then comparing a judge's score to other people performing a routine by themselves in a pool in synchronized swimming, not alternatively throwing darts at a board. Competing against another is attempting to block a shot or steal the ball in basketball, throwing a pitch by a batter or tagging someone out at home plate in baseball, a goaltender blocking a shot in soccer, etc.
And as has been made abundantly clear, you are the only one who has this interpretation. Thus it is your own subjective, editorial opinion and not shared by any objective source. I would hope it would be evident to you almost everyone who has posted has disagreed. Although you gaslight that as "groupthink".
I once heard a wise man say, when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, you are wrong. But hey, feel free to live in your own little world. If nothing else, I will give you credit for amazing stamina in sticking to an unfounded opinion that is unsupported by any objective source.
1) It should be fairly obvious at this point that democracy/the majority/mob rule doesn't always determine the optimal solution.
2) The opposition to my opinion is not supported by an objective source, either, because again, this is a discussion about a subjective topic. It is conceptual. It is okay to have a separate interpretation, the Earth will still continue to spin if we don't all agree on a common definition of something.Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Apparently not. Unless someone is trying to tackle you while you get your score?
Tackling is actually a penalty in some sports, you can't really get away with it in soccer, hockey, baseball, etc. But they are still sports because they are defending each other in different ways. Lawn darts, competitive fishing, and beer pong? No defense whatsoever, and not sports...
But croquet must count because you can whack other people's balls?
My family is pedantic at times. But really this distinction takes the cake.7 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Activities like gymnastics, golf, high diving, etc., can be engaged in totally alone, they just happen to be done collectively in competition.Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.
Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports
You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.
Not complicated
A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?
You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.
you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"
Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)
What ambiguity?
Physical exertion/skill + competition = sport
The “defense” bit is a fictional add-on of your own making.
Every sports organization, including the Olympics themselves, as well as the general populace all disagree with your claim that direct defense is a requirement of sport.
Perhaps where there is no one governing body to offer a single definition, it would be helpful to look to the whole host of authoritative bodies which happen to all agree that a sport does not require the opportunity to defend against one’s opponent.
Use some critical thinking, man.
You didn’t like my critical thinking and labeled it as “fiction”, so I’m thinking that analysis resulting in a conclusion that conflicts with your opinion is fiction and within is “critical thinking”.
The beauty of this topic (for some people) is that there is no correct answer that can be declared by any objective authority - if the International Hopscotch Organization declares hopscotch a “sport”, do you think that just maybe it is because they have an interest in declaring their activity a sport?
The bit about a defensive element being required to qualify as a sport doesn’t exist in any accepted definition of the word “sport.”
Thus, I can only derive that you invented this qualifier yourself which makes it fiction.
As for your critical thinking being fiction, that’s not what I said but considering that I’ve seen no evidence that you’ve thought critically about this debate, yeah, I’ll roll with it.
Also, it’s not just the PGA declaring golf a sport. It’s the Olympic committee and every sports organization in the history of mankind that disagrees with your assertion.
Also the general population.
I realize there is a lot of comfort in groupthink. Discussion about the subjective can be painful, but conceptual thinking can be really gratifying if you just give it a chance. In this case, the stakes are very low, and the consequences of considering different opinions are few (gasp, different opinions on subjective concepts?)
What constitutes a sport is completely subjective and therefore can be defined individually - if it doesn’t have defense, it is just a competitive activity. My apologies to the World Rock Paper Scissors Society, professional ostrich racers, competitive square dancing leagues, the winner of the pie eating contest at the county fair last summer, and the “general public” and all of its wisdom...
In other words, you want to create your own definition of a pre-existing word and if I disagree then I’m just seeking the comfort of groupthink.
Lol. K.
I did not create my own definition, here is the definition of a sport that was posted pages ago:
sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
As I stated, I interpret "competes against another or others" as actually being in physical opposition, defending against one another and able to disrupt your opponent. Not taking turns swinging a club in golf and seeing who has the least amount of strokes, not performing a routine in a pool by yourself and then comparing a judge's score to other people performing a routine by themselves in a pool in synchronized swimming, not alternatively throwing darts at a board. Competing against another is attempting to block a shot or steal the ball in basketball, throwing a pitch by a batter or tagging someone out at home plate in baseball, a goaltender blocking a shot in soccer, etc.
And as has been made abundantly clear, you are the only one who has this interpretation. Thus it is your own subjective, editorial opinion and not shared by any objective source. I would hope it would be evident to you almost everyone who has posted has disagreed. Although you gaslight that as "groupthink".
I once heard a wise man say, when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, you are wrong. But hey, feel free to live in your own little world. If nothing else, I will give you credit for amazing stamina in sticking to an unfounded opinion that is unsupported by any objective source.
1) It should be fairly obvious at this point that democracy/the majority/mob rule doesn't always determine the optimal solution.
2) The opposition to my opinion is not supported by an objective source, either, because again, this is a discussion about a subjective topic. It is conceptual. It is okay to have a separate interpretation, the Earth will still continue to spin if we don't all agree on a common definition of something.Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Apparently not. Unless someone is trying to tackle you while you get your score?
Tackling is actually a penalty in some sports, you can't really get away with it in soccer, hockey, baseball, etc. But they are still sports because they are defending each other in different ways. Lawn darts, competitive fishing, and beer pong? No defense whatsoever, and not sports...
Yeah, I guess the International Olympic Committee wouldn't be considered an objective source by anyone. Strong logic there.
The Olympic Committee stopped recognizing cricket, lacrosse, and baseball as sports - so did they cease to become sports?
actually saying they stopped recognizing them as sports is a misnomer. They stopped including them...except baseball is back in for 2020....among others.
so the olympic committee stopped including them as sports is a more accurate statement
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2016/08/09/how-a-sport-becomes-an-olympic-event/#25cfbc702ce95 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Activities like gymnastics, golf, high diving, etc., can be engaged in totally alone, they just happen to be done collectively in competition.Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.
Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports
You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.
Not complicated
A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?
You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.
you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"
Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)
What ambiguity?
Physical exertion/skill + competition = sport
The “defense” bit is a fictional add-on of your own making.
Every sports organization, including the Olympics themselves, as well as the general populace all disagree with your claim that direct defense is a requirement of sport.
Perhaps where there is no one governing body to offer a single definition, it would be helpful to look to the whole host of authoritative bodies which happen to all agree that a sport does not require the opportunity to defend against one’s opponent.
Use some critical thinking, man.
You didn’t like my critical thinking and labeled it as “fiction”, so I’m thinking that analysis resulting in a conclusion that conflicts with your opinion is fiction and within is “critical thinking”.
The beauty of this topic (for some people) is that there is no correct answer that can be declared by any objective authority - if the International Hopscotch Organization declares hopscotch a “sport”, do you think that just maybe it is because they have an interest in declaring their activity a sport?
The bit about a defensive element being required to qualify as a sport doesn’t exist in any accepted definition of the word “sport.”
Thus, I can only derive that you invented this qualifier yourself which makes it fiction.
As for your critical thinking being fiction, that’s not what I said but considering that I’ve seen no evidence that you’ve thought critically about this debate, yeah, I’ll roll with it.
Also, it’s not just the PGA declaring golf a sport. It’s the Olympic committee and every sports organization in the history of mankind that disagrees with your assertion.
Also the general population.
I realize there is a lot of comfort in groupthink. Discussion about the subjective can be painful, but conceptual thinking can be really gratifying if you just give it a chance. In this case, the stakes are very low, and the consequences of considering different opinions are few (gasp, different opinions on subjective concepts?)
What constitutes a sport is completely subjective and therefore can be defined individually - if it doesn’t have defense, it is just a competitive activity. My apologies to the World Rock Paper Scissors Society, professional ostrich racers, competitive square dancing leagues, the winner of the pie eating contest at the county fair last summer, and the “general public” and all of its wisdom...
In other words, you want to create your own definition of a pre-existing word and if I disagree then I’m just seeking the comfort of groupthink.
Lol. K.
I did not create my own definition, here is the definition of a sport that was posted pages ago:
sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
As I stated, I interpret "competes against another or others" as actually being in physical opposition, defending against one another and able to disrupt your opponent. Not taking turns swinging a club in golf and seeing who has the least amount of strokes, not performing a routine in a pool by yourself and then comparing a judge's score to other people performing a routine by themselves in a pool in synchronized swimming, not alternatively throwing darts at a board. Competing against another is attempting to block a shot or steal the ball in basketball, throwing a pitch by a batter or tagging someone out at home plate in baseball, a goaltender blocking a shot in soccer, etc.
And as has been made abundantly clear, you are the only one who has this interpretation. Thus it is your own subjective, editorial opinion and not shared by any objective source. I would hope it would be evident to you almost everyone who has posted has disagreed. Although you gaslight that as "groupthink".
I once heard a wise man say, when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, you are wrong. But hey, feel free to live in your own little world. If nothing else, I will give you credit for amazing stamina in sticking to an unfounded opinion that is unsupported by any objective source.
1) It should be fairly obvious at this point that democracy/the majority/mob rule doesn't always determine the optimal solution.
2) The opposition to my opinion is not supported by an objective source, either, because again, this is a discussion about a subjective topic. It is conceptual. It is okay to have a separate interpretation, the Earth will still continue to spin if we don't all agree on a common definition of something.Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Apparently not. Unless someone is trying to tackle you while you get your score?
Tackling is actually a penalty in some sports, you can't really get away with it in soccer, hockey, baseball, etc. But they are still sports because they are defending each other in different ways. Lawn darts, competitive fishing, and beer pong? No defense whatsoever, and not sports...
Yeah, I guess the International Olympic Committee wouldn't be considered an objective source by anyone. Strong logic there.
The Olympic Committee stopped recognizing cricket, lacrosse, and baseball as sports - so did they cease to become sports?
actually saying they stopped recognizing them as sports is a misnomer. They stopped including them...except baseball is back in for 2020....among others.
so the olympic committee stopped including them as sports is a more accurate statement
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2016/08/09/how-a-sport-becomes-an-olympic-event/#25cfbc702ce9
Right, because the Olympic Committee is not a source providing the definition of what a sport is, but rather a committee that decides what events will be included in the Olympics and then stages the Olympics.3 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Activities like gymnastics, golf, high diving, etc., can be engaged in totally alone, they just happen to be done collectively in competition.Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.
Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports
You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.
Not complicated
A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?
You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.
you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"
Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)
What ambiguity?
Physical exertion/skill + competition = sport
The “defense” bit is a fictional add-on of your own making.
Every sports organization, including the Olympics themselves, as well as the general populace all disagree with your claim that direct defense is a requirement of sport.
Perhaps where there is no one governing body to offer a single definition, it would be helpful to look to the whole host of authoritative bodies which happen to all agree that a sport does not require the opportunity to defend against one’s opponent.
Use some critical thinking, man.
You didn’t like my critical thinking and labeled it as “fiction”, so I’m thinking that analysis resulting in a conclusion that conflicts with your opinion is fiction and within is “critical thinking”.
The beauty of this topic (for some people) is that there is no correct answer that can be declared by any objective authority - if the International Hopscotch Organization declares hopscotch a “sport”, do you think that just maybe it is because they have an interest in declaring their activity a sport?
The bit about a defensive element being required to qualify as a sport doesn’t exist in any accepted definition of the word “sport.”
Thus, I can only derive that you invented this qualifier yourself which makes it fiction.
As for your critical thinking being fiction, that’s not what I said but considering that I’ve seen no evidence that you’ve thought critically about this debate, yeah, I’ll roll with it.
Also, it’s not just the PGA declaring golf a sport. It’s the Olympic committee and every sports organization in the history of mankind that disagrees with your assertion.
Also the general population.
I realize there is a lot of comfort in groupthink. Discussion about the subjective can be painful, but conceptual thinking can be really gratifying if you just give it a chance. In this case, the stakes are very low, and the consequences of considering different opinions are few (gasp, different opinions on subjective concepts?)
What constitutes a sport is completely subjective and therefore can be defined individually - if it doesn’t have defense, it is just a competitive activity. My apologies to the World Rock Paper Scissors Society, professional ostrich racers, competitive square dancing leagues, the winner of the pie eating contest at the county fair last summer, and the “general public” and all of its wisdom...
In other words, you want to create your own definition of a pre-existing word and if I disagree then I’m just seeking the comfort of groupthink.
Lol. K.
I did not create my own definition, here is the definition of a sport that was posted pages ago:
sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
As I stated, I interpret "competes against another or others" as actually being in physical opposition, defending against one another and able to disrupt your opponent. Not taking turns swinging a club in golf and seeing who has the least amount of strokes, not performing a routine in a pool by yourself and then comparing a judge's score to other people performing a routine by themselves in a pool in synchronized swimming, not alternatively throwing darts at a board. Competing against another is attempting to block a shot or steal the ball in basketball, throwing a pitch by a batter or tagging someone out at home plate in baseball, a goaltender blocking a shot in soccer, etc.
And as has been made abundantly clear, you are the only one who has this interpretation. Thus it is your own subjective, editorial opinion and not shared by any objective source. I would hope it would be evident to you almost everyone who has posted has disagreed. Although you gaslight that as "groupthink".
I once heard a wise man say, when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, you are wrong. But hey, feel free to live in your own little world. If nothing else, I will give you credit for amazing stamina in sticking to an unfounded opinion that is unsupported by any objective source.
1) It should be fairly obvious at this point that democracy/the majority/mob rule doesn't always determine the optimal solution.
2) The opposition to my opinion is not supported by an objective source, either, because again, this is a discussion about a subjective topic. It is conceptual. It is okay to have a separate interpretation, the Earth will still continue to spin if we don't all agree on a common definition of something.Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Apparently not. Unless someone is trying to tackle you while you get your score?
Tackling is actually a penalty in some sports, you can't really get away with it in soccer, hockey, baseball, etc. But they are still sports because they are defending each other in different ways. Lawn darts, competitive fishing, and beer pong? No defense whatsoever, and not sports...
Yeah, I guess the International Olympic Committee wouldn't be considered an objective source by anyone. Strong logic there.
The Olympic Committee stopped recognizing cricket, lacrosse, and baseball as sports - so did they cease to become sports?
actually saying they stopped recognizing them as sports is a misnomer. They stopped including them...except baseball is back in for 2020....among others.
so the olympic committee stopped including them as sports is a more accurate statement
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2016/08/09/how-a-sport-becomes-an-olympic-event/#25cfbc702ce9
Right, because the Olympic Committee is not a source providing the definition of what a sport is, but rather a committee that decides what events will be included in the Olympics and then stages the Olympics.
right...but to be included in Olympics it is a sport...note the title of the article..."how a SPORT becomes an Olympic event"1 -
Bry_LanderBry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Activities like gymnastics, golf, high diving, etc., can be engaged in totally alone, they just happen to be done collectively in competition.Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.
Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports
You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.
Not complicated
A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?
You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.
you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"
Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)
What ambiguity?
Physical exertion/skill + competition = sport
The “defense” bit is a fictional add-on of your own making.
Every sports organization, including the Olympics themselves, as well as the general populace all disagree with your claim that direct defense is a requirement of sport.
Perhaps where there is no one governing body to offer a single definition, it would be helpful to look to the whole host of authoritative bodies which happen to all agree that a sport does not require the opportunity to defend against one’s opponent.
Use some critical thinking, man.
You didn’t like my critical thinking and labeled it as “fiction”, so I’m thinking that analysis resulting in a conclusion that conflicts with your opinion is fiction and within is “critical thinking”.
The beauty of this topic (for some people) is that there is no correct answer that can be declared by any objective authority - if the International Hopscotch Organization declares hopscotch a “sport”, do you think that just maybe it is because they have an interest in declaring their activity a sport?
The bit about a defensive element being required to qualify as a sport doesn’t exist in any accepted definition of the word “sport.”
Thus, I can only derive that you invented this qualifier yourself which makes it fiction.
As for your critical thinking being fiction, that’s not what I said but considering that I’ve seen no evidence that you’ve thought critically about this debate, yeah, I’ll roll with it.
Also, it’s not just the PGA declaring golf a sport. It’s the Olympic committee and every sports organization in the history of mankind that disagrees with your assertion.
Also the general population.
I realize there is a lot of comfort in groupthink. Discussion about the subjective can be painful, but conceptual thinking can be really gratifying if you just give it a chance. In this case, the stakes are very low, and the consequences of considering different opinions are few (gasp, different opinions on subjective concepts?)
What constitutes a sport is completely subjective and therefore can be defined individually - if it doesn’t have defense, it is just a competitive activity. My apologies to the World Rock Paper Scissors Society, professional ostrich racers, competitive square dancing leagues, the winner of the pie eating contest at the county fair last summer, and the “general public” and all of its wisdom...
In other words, you want to create your own definition of a pre-existing word and if I disagree then I’m just seeking the comfort of groupthink.
Lol. K.
I did not create my own definition, here is the definition of a sport that was posted pages ago:
sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
As I stated, I interpret "competes against another or others" as actually being in physical opposition, defending against one another and able to disrupt your opponent. Not taking turns swinging a club in golf and seeing who has the least amount of strokes, not performing a routine in a pool by yourself and then comparing a judge's score to other people performing a routine by themselves in a pool in synchronized swimming, not alternatively throwing darts at a board. Competing against another is attempting to block a shot or steal the ball in basketball, throwing a pitch by a batter or tagging someone out at home plate in baseball, a goaltender blocking a shot in soccer, etc.
And as has been made abundantly clear, you are the only one who has this interpretation. Thus it is your own subjective, editorial opinion and not shared by any objective source. I would hope it would be evident to you almost everyone who has posted has disagreed. Although you gaslight that as "groupthink".
I once heard a wise man say, when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, you are wrong. But hey, feel free to live in your own little world. If nothing else, I will give you credit for amazing stamina in sticking to an unfounded opinion that is unsupported by any objective source.
1) It should be fairly obvious at this point that democracy/the majority/mob rule doesn't always determine the optimal solution.
2) The opposition to my opinion is not supported by an objective source, either, because again, this is a discussion about a subjective topic. It is conceptual. It is okay to have a separate interpretation, the Earth will still continue to spin if we don't all agree on a common definition of something.Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Apparently not. Unless someone is trying to tackle you while you get your score?
Tackling is actually a penalty in some sports, you can't really get away with it in soccer, hockey, baseball, etc. But they are still sports because they are defending each other in different ways. Lawn darts, competitive fishing, and beer pong? No defense whatsoever, and not sports...
Yeah, I guess the International Olympic Committee wouldn't be considered an objective source by anyone. Strong logic there.
The Olympic Committee stopped recognizing cricket, lacrosse, and baseball as sports - so did they cease to become sports?
actually saying they stopped recognizing them as sports is a misnomer. They stopped including them...except baseball is back in for 2020....among others.
so the olympic committee stopped including them as sports is a more accurate statement
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2016/08/09/how-a-sport-becomes-an-olympic-event/#25cfbc702ce9
Right, because the Olympic Committee is not a source providing the definition of what a sport is, but rather a committee that decides what events will be included in the Olympics and then stages the Olympics.
Rather than throw out silly pastimes as examples what is your view of the Olympic events:
100m sprint
Marathon
Long jump
High jump
Weight lifting
My view is they are all examples of sports testing particular physical abilities and skills to their maximum with defined winners and losers in competition.
I would regard the competitors in those events additionally as sportsmen or sportswomen. How about you?6 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Activities like gymnastics, golf, high diving, etc., can be engaged in totally alone, they just happen to be done collectively in competition.Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.
Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports
You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.
Not complicated
A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?
You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.
you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"
Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)
What ambiguity?
Physical exertion/skill + competition = sport
The “defense” bit is a fictional add-on of your own making.
Every sports organization, including the Olympics themselves, as well as the general populace all disagree with your claim that direct defense is a requirement of sport.
Perhaps where there is no one governing body to offer a single definition, it would be helpful to look to the whole host of authoritative bodies which happen to all agree that a sport does not require the opportunity to defend against one’s opponent.
Use some critical thinking, man.
You didn’t like my critical thinking and labeled it as “fiction”, so I’m thinking that analysis resulting in a conclusion that conflicts with your opinion is fiction and within is “critical thinking”.
The beauty of this topic (for some people) is that there is no correct answer that can be declared by any objective authority - if the International Hopscotch Organization declares hopscotch a “sport”, do you think that just maybe it is because they have an interest in declaring their activity a sport?
The bit about a defensive element being required to qualify as a sport doesn’t exist in any accepted definition of the word “sport.”
Thus, I can only derive that you invented this qualifier yourself which makes it fiction.
As for your critical thinking being fiction, that’s not what I said but considering that I’ve seen no evidence that you’ve thought critically about this debate, yeah, I’ll roll with it.
Also, it’s not just the PGA declaring golf a sport. It’s the Olympic committee and every sports organization in the history of mankind that disagrees with your assertion.
Also the general population.
I realize there is a lot of comfort in groupthink. Discussion about the subjective can be painful, but conceptual thinking can be really gratifying if you just give it a chance. In this case, the stakes are very low, and the consequences of considering different opinions are few (gasp, different opinions on subjective concepts?)
What constitutes a sport is completely subjective and therefore can be defined individually - if it doesn’t have defense, it is just a competitive activity. My apologies to the World Rock Paper Scissors Society, professional ostrich racers, competitive square dancing leagues, the winner of the pie eating contest at the county fair last summer, and the “general public” and all of its wisdom...
In other words, you want to create your own definition of a pre-existing word and if I disagree then I’m just seeking the comfort of groupthink.
Lol. K.
I did not create my own definition, here is the definition of a sport that was posted pages ago:
sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
As I stated, I interpret "competes against another or others" as actually being in physical opposition, defending against one another and able to disrupt your opponent. Not taking turns swinging a club in golf and seeing who has the least amount of strokes, not performing a routine in a pool by yourself and then comparing a judge's score to other people performing a routine by themselves in a pool in synchronized swimming, not alternatively throwing darts at a board. Competing against another is attempting to block a shot or steal the ball in basketball, throwing a pitch by a batter or tagging someone out at home plate in baseball, a goaltender blocking a shot in soccer, etc.
And as has been made abundantly clear, you are the only one who has this interpretation. Thus it is your own subjective, editorial opinion and not shared by any objective source. I would hope it would be evident to you almost everyone who has posted has disagreed. Although you gaslight that as "groupthink".
I once heard a wise man say, when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, you are wrong. But hey, feel free to live in your own little world. If nothing else, I will give you credit for amazing stamina in sticking to an unfounded opinion that is unsupported by any objective source.
1) It should be fairly obvious at this point that democracy/the majority/mob rule doesn't always determine the optimal solution.
2) The opposition to my opinion is not supported by an objective source, either, because again, this is a discussion about a subjective topic. It is conceptual. It is okay to have a separate interpretation, the Earth will still continue to spin if we don't all agree on a common definition of something.Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Apparently not. Unless someone is trying to tackle you while you get your score?
Tackling is actually a penalty in some sports, you can't really get away with it in soccer, hockey, baseball, etc. But they are still sports because they are defending each other in different ways. Lawn darts, competitive fishing, and beer pong? No defense whatsoever, and not sports...
Yeah, I guess the International Olympic Committee wouldn't be considered an objective source by anyone. Strong logic there.
The Olympic Committee stopped recognizing cricket, lacrosse, and baseball as sports - so did they cease to become sports?
actually saying they stopped recognizing them as sports is a misnomer. They stopped including them...except baseball is back in for 2020....among others.
so the olympic committee stopped including them as sports is a more accurate statement
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2016/08/09/how-a-sport-becomes-an-olympic-event/#25cfbc702ce9
Right, because the Olympic Committee is not a source providing the definition of what a sport is, but rather a committee that decides what events will be included in the Olympics and then stages the Olympics.
right...but to be included in Olympics it is a sport...note the title of the article..."how a SPORT becomes an Olympic event"
Per below, the Olympic Commission (as found in the “Review of The Olympic Programme and the Recommendations on The Programme of the Games of the Xxix Olympiad, Beijing 2008”) concedes that 1) the Olympic Charter does not provide a definition of a sport and 2) there is no global definition of what constitutes a sport. There is no silver bullet type of definitive authority that can be cited.
https://stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/Reports/EN/en_report_527.pdf3 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Activities like gymnastics, golf, high diving, etc., can be engaged in totally alone, they just happen to be done collectively in competition.Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.
Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports
You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.
Not complicated
A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?
You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.
you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"
Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)
What ambiguity?
Physical exertion/skill + competition = sport
The “defense” bit is a fictional add-on of your own making.
Every sports organization, including the Olympics themselves, as well as the general populace all disagree with your claim that direct defense is a requirement of sport.
Perhaps where there is no one governing body to offer a single definition, it would be helpful to look to the whole host of authoritative bodies which happen to all agree that a sport does not require the opportunity to defend against one’s opponent.
Use some critical thinking, man.
You didn’t like my critical thinking and labeled it as “fiction”, so I’m thinking that analysis resulting in a conclusion that conflicts with your opinion is fiction and within is “critical thinking”.
The beauty of this topic (for some people) is that there is no correct answer that can be declared by any objective authority - if the International Hopscotch Organization declares hopscotch a “sport”, do you think that just maybe it is because they have an interest in declaring their activity a sport?
The bit about a defensive element being required to qualify as a sport doesn’t exist in any accepted definition of the word “sport.”
Thus, I can only derive that you invented this qualifier yourself which makes it fiction.
As for your critical thinking being fiction, that’s not what I said but considering that I’ve seen no evidence that you’ve thought critically about this debate, yeah, I’ll roll with it.
Also, it’s not just the PGA declaring golf a sport. It’s the Olympic committee and every sports organization in the history of mankind that disagrees with your assertion.
Also the general population.
I realize there is a lot of comfort in groupthink. Discussion about the subjective can be painful, but conceptual thinking can be really gratifying if you just give it a chance. In this case, the stakes are very low, and the consequences of considering different opinions are few (gasp, different opinions on subjective concepts?)
What constitutes a sport is completely subjective and therefore can be defined individually - if it doesn’t have defense, it is just a competitive activity. My apologies to the World Rock Paper Scissors Society, professional ostrich racers, competitive square dancing leagues, the winner of the pie eating contest at the county fair last summer, and the “general public” and all of its wisdom...
In other words, you want to create your own definition of a pre-existing word and if I disagree then I’m just seeking the comfort of groupthink.
Lol. K.
I did not create my own definition, here is the definition of a sport that was posted pages ago:
sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
As I stated, I interpret "competes against another or others" as actually being in physical opposition, defending against one another and able to disrupt your opponent. Not taking turns swinging a club in golf and seeing who has the least amount of strokes, not performing a routine in a pool by yourself and then comparing a judge's score to other people performing a routine by themselves in a pool in synchronized swimming, not alternatively throwing darts at a board. Competing against another is attempting to block a shot or steal the ball in basketball, throwing a pitch by a batter or tagging someone out at home plate in baseball, a goaltender blocking a shot in soccer, etc.
And as has been made abundantly clear, you are the only one who has this interpretation. Thus it is your own subjective, editorial opinion and not shared by any objective source. I would hope it would be evident to you almost everyone who has posted has disagreed. Although you gaslight that as "groupthink".
I once heard a wise man say, when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, you are wrong. But hey, feel free to live in your own little world. If nothing else, I will give you credit for amazing stamina in sticking to an unfounded opinion that is unsupported by any objective source.
1) It should be fairly obvious at this point that democracy/the majority/mob rule doesn't always determine the optimal solution.
2) The opposition to my opinion is not supported by an objective source, either, because again, this is a discussion about a subjective topic. It is conceptual. It is okay to have a separate interpretation, the Earth will still continue to spin if we don't all agree on a common definition of something.Alatariel75 wrote: »So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?
Apparently not. Unless someone is trying to tackle you while you get your score?
Tackling is actually a penalty in some sports, you can't really get away with it in soccer, hockey, baseball, etc. But they are still sports because they are defending each other in different ways. Lawn darts, competitive fishing, and beer pong? No defense whatsoever, and not sports...
Yeah, I guess the International Olympic Committee wouldn't be considered an objective source by anyone. Strong logic there.
The Olympic Committee stopped recognizing cricket, lacrosse, and baseball as sports - so did they cease to become sports?
actually saying they stopped recognizing them as sports is a misnomer. They stopped including them...except baseball is back in for 2020....among others.
so the olympic committee stopped including them as sports is a more accurate statement
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2016/08/09/how-a-sport-becomes-an-olympic-event/#25cfbc702ce9
Right, because the Olympic Committee is not a source providing the definition of what a sport is, but rather a committee that decides what events will be included in the Olympics and then stages the Olympics.
right...but to be included in Olympics it is a sport...note the title of the article..."how a SPORT becomes an Olympic event"
Per below, the Olympic Commission (as found in the “Review of The Olympic Programme and the Recommendations on The Programme of the Games of the Xxix Olympiad, Beijing 2008”) concedes that 1) the Olympic Charter does not provide a definition of a sport and 2) there is no global definition of what constitutes a sport. There is no silver bullet type of definitive authority that can be cited.
https://stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/Reports/EN/en_report_527.pdf
Yes that is confirming what I just posted....
the Olympic charter does not decide what is a sport...but it has to be a sport to be included...so the definition is coming from another body which if you read the link would see that...
aka
"There are a couple of different paths to inclusion in the Olympics. The traditional way is for a sport's international federation to petition the IOC, but the alternative is for local organizing committees to push favored sports in their country. This local process was formalized in 2014 under the “Olympic Agenda 2020,” which introduced sweeping changes to the Olympic movement, including reduced bidding costs, a digital Olympic channel and a more flexible program allowing for the introduction of new sports."
"....Twenty other sports were considered, but rejected for 2020, including bowling, chess, korfball, sumo, tug of war and wushu."2 -
Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.8
-
In Germany, P.E. class is called Sports class. So everything you do in P.E. is sport.3
-
Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
I don't think that is unpopular...
I totally agree and know a lot here on this thread agree as well.
0 -
Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
The only extent to which my family is 'forced' to diet with me is that when I buy takeout salads and dips or bakery goodies, I get ones where I've got a good idea of the calories or don't particularly care for them/can resist them easily. (I dislike mocha. My husband likes it. So I'll buy a mocha log and make a dessert that fits my calories. I like potato salad, but it's not a trigger food for me and I can resist it handily. I buy it, but I don't eat it.)
Now, I won't buy custard or caramel products unless it's a single serving and safely in its package until hubby's ready to consume it. But if he comes home still snacking on a Boston cream donut he bought on the way, I'll look on him with envy/longing, but never dispute his right to have it or accuse him of not being supportive.3 -
stevencloser wrote: »In Germany, P.E. class is called Sports class. So everything you do in P.E. is sport.
I recall participating in juggling, hula hooping, and duck-duck-goose in gym, activities that are clearly sports
. I’m hoping the Olympics include duck-duck-goose as a sport in 2024, I’m thinking I will certainly medal.
6 -
Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
I don't think that is unpopular...
I totally agree and know a lot here on this thread agree as well.
But you see this all the time, though: folks come on the forums to complain about how their significant other eats whatever they want and doesn't understand that WE'RE TRYING TO LOSE 50 LBS FOR BIKINI SEASON!! and posters just CAN'T HANDLE all the naughty food in the house. And so many people will reply to stow naughty food in a drawer or lock it up, like that solves everything.
There is no such thing as "naughty" food, and this is a commitment, not a fad.1 -
Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
I don't think that is unpopular...
I totally agree and know a lot here on this thread agree as well.
I suppose I thought it was unpopular because of the all the posts I see about partners 'sabotaging' someone because they won't change their eating habits too.3 -
Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
I'm not dieting, I'm changing to a healthy lifestyle. If I'm doing the cooking and the grocery shopping, then yes, my family will be changing to a healthy lifestyle, too. If they choose to continue with an unhealthy lifestyle, I'm not going to stop them, but I'm not going to enable them either.5 -
Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
I don't think that is unpopular...
I totally agree and know a lot here on this thread agree as well.
But you see this all the time, though: folks come on the forums to complain about how their significant other eats whatever they want and doesn't understand that WE'RE TRYING TO LOSE 50 LBS FOR BIKINI SEASON!! and posters just CAN'T HANDLE all the naughty food in the house. And so many people will reply to stow naughty food in a drawer or lock it up, like that solves everything.
There is no such thing as "naughty" food, and this is a commitment, not a fad.Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
I don't think that is unpopular...
I totally agree and know a lot here on this thread agree as well.
I suppose I thought it was unpopular because of the all the posts I see about partners 'sabotaging' someone because they won't change their eating habits too.
Yes there are those who do complain and those that jump on the band wagon with them...but I think that there are more (here at least) who feel that those around us aren't dieting too.
I might be a bit biased as I feel the same as do most of my family and friends...
I doubt tho you will see much disagreeing with you in this thread however...in the general weight loss forum maybe.0 -
magster4isu wrote: »Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
I'm not dieting, I'm changing to a healthy lifestyle. If I'm doing the cooking and the grocery shopping, then yes, my family will be changing to a healthy lifestyle, too. If they choose to continue with an unhealthy lifestyle, I'm not going to stop them, but I'm not going to enable them either.
Isn't that making them too??? sounds like it's being forced on them...unless you are like me...*see below
I do the cooking and shopping too but I make sure I ask my husband "is there anything you want me to pick up for you?" and if he says chips I get them...or if my son asks for moon pies...fine. I frequently cook calorie dense food items...for my family...they are men and need it more than I do so I just take a smaller portion.
I will even cook calorie dense brownie bottomed peanut butter cheese cake for them if they ask...
I am not enabling an unhealthy lifestyle...I am displaying and participating in a life of moderation.1 -
magster4isu wrote: »Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
I'm not dieting, I'm changing to a healthy lifestyle. If I'm doing the cooking and the grocery shopping, then yes, my family will be changing to a healthy lifestyle, too. If they choose to continue with an unhealthy lifestyle, I'm not going to stop them, but I'm not going to enable them either.
Isn't that making them too??? sounds like it's being forced on them...unless you are like me...*see below
I do the cooking and shopping too but I make sure I ask my husband "is there anything you want me to pick up for you?" and if he says chips I get them...or if my son asks for moon pies...fine. I frequently cook calorie dense food items...for my family...they are men and need it more than I do so I just take a smaller portion.
I will even cook calorie dense brownie bottomed peanut butter cheese cake for them if they ask...
I am not enabling an unhealthy lifestyle...I am displaying and participating in a life of moderation.
I think you missed the part where I said that I am NOT dieting but changing to a healthy lifestyle. Yes, a healthy lifestyle sometimes includes calorie dense foods.
I am not making them do anything. If they want a moon pie, they can go out and buy a moon pie. I won't stop them. I just won't be buying it for them.
3 -
magster4isu wrote: »magster4isu wrote: »Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
I'm not dieting, I'm changing to a healthy lifestyle. If I'm doing the cooking and the grocery shopping, then yes, my family will be changing to a healthy lifestyle, too. If they choose to continue with an unhealthy lifestyle, I'm not going to stop them, but I'm not going to enable them either.
Isn't that making them too??? sounds like it's being forced on them...unless you are like me...*see below
I do the cooking and shopping too but I make sure I ask my husband "is there anything you want me to pick up for you?" and if he says chips I get them...or if my son asks for moon pies...fine. I frequently cook calorie dense food items...for my family...they are men and need it more than I do so I just take a smaller portion.
I will even cook calorie dense brownie bottomed peanut butter cheese cake for them if they ask...
I am not enabling an unhealthy lifestyle...I am displaying and participating in a life of moderation.
I think you missed the part where I said that I am NOT dieting but changing to a healthy lifestyle. Yes, a healthy lifestyle sometimes includes calorie dense foods.
I am not making them do anything. If they want a moon pie, they can go out and buy a moon pie. I won't stop them. I just won't be buying it for them.
so you are forcing the change on them because prior to you deciding that it was time for you to "get healthy" I expect that things that they wanted even if not the most healthy were part of the groceries at some point and that they were not told "go buy it yourself"...
see I would equate that to my husband not shovelling my side of the driveway...he always did shovel it but now that I am getting healthy he thinks I should do that...heck no...that's his job..mine is to get the groceries and cook for the family and I won't impose my will on them...anymore than I would want them to do it to me.
and I didn't mention dieting either...3 -
magster4isu wrote: »magster4isu wrote: »Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
I'm not dieting, I'm changing to a healthy lifestyle. If I'm doing the cooking and the grocery shopping, then yes, my family will be changing to a healthy lifestyle, too. If they choose to continue with an unhealthy lifestyle, I'm not going to stop them, but I'm not going to enable them either.
Isn't that making them too??? sounds like it's being forced on them...unless you are like me...*see below
I do the cooking and shopping too but I make sure I ask my husband "is there anything you want me to pick up for you?" and if he says chips I get them...or if my son asks for moon pies...fine. I frequently cook calorie dense food items...for my family...they are men and need it more than I do so I just take a smaller portion.
I will even cook calorie dense brownie bottomed peanut butter cheese cake for them if they ask...
I am not enabling an unhealthy lifestyle...I am displaying and participating in a life of moderation.
I think you missed the part where I said that I am NOT dieting but changing to a healthy lifestyle. Yes, a healthy lifestyle sometimes includes calorie dense foods.
I am not making them do anything. If they want a moon pie, they can go out and buy a moon pie. I won't stop them. I just won't be buying it for them.
so you are forcing the change on them because prior to you deciding that it was time for you to "get healthy" I expect that things that they wanted even if not the most healthy were part of the groceries at some point and that they were not told "go buy it yourself"...
see I would equate that to my husband not shovelling my side of the driveway...he always did shovel it but now that I am getting healthy he thinks I should do that...heck no...that's his job..mine is to get the groceries and cook for the family and I won't impose my will on them...anymore than I would want them to do it to me.
and I didn't mention dieting either...
The OP said "Your family should not be forced to diet with you". I stated that I am not dieting. Dieting implies that you are trying to lose weight. I am NOT forcing my family to lose weight (diet). The only change happening is that I am not enabling an unhealthy lifestyle anymore. If they want to be unhealthy, that is their choice and they can do it on their own without my help.9 -
Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
No but if a family has a shred of compassion for the one dieting they would support them and not blame them...6 -
magster4isu wrote: »magster4isu wrote: »magster4isu wrote: »Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
I'm not dieting, I'm changing to a healthy lifestyle. If I'm doing the cooking and the grocery shopping, then yes, my family will be changing to a healthy lifestyle, too. If they choose to continue with an unhealthy lifestyle, I'm not going to stop them, but I'm not going to enable them either.
Isn't that making them too??? sounds like it's being forced on them...unless you are like me...*see below
I do the cooking and shopping too but I make sure I ask my husband "is there anything you want me to pick up for you?" and if he says chips I get them...or if my son asks for moon pies...fine. I frequently cook calorie dense food items...for my family...they are men and need it more than I do so I just take a smaller portion.
I will even cook calorie dense brownie bottomed peanut butter cheese cake for them if they ask...
I am not enabling an unhealthy lifestyle...I am displaying and participating in a life of moderation.
I think you missed the part where I said that I am NOT dieting but changing to a healthy lifestyle. Yes, a healthy lifestyle sometimes includes calorie dense foods.
I am not making them do anything. If they want a moon pie, they can go out and buy a moon pie. I won't stop them. I just won't be buying it for them.
so you are forcing the change on them because prior to you deciding that it was time for you to "get healthy" I expect that things that they wanted even if not the most healthy were part of the groceries at some point and that they were not told "go buy it yourself"...
see I would equate that to my husband not shovelling my side of the driveway...he always did shovel it but now that I am getting healthy he thinks I should do that...heck no...that's his job..mine is to get the groceries and cook for the family and I won't impose my will on them...anymore than I would want them to do it to me.
and I didn't mention dieting either...
The OP said "Your family should not be forced to diet with you". I stated that I am not dieting. Dieting implies that you are trying to lose weight. I am NOT forcing my family to lose weight (diet). The only change happening is that I am not enabling an unhealthy lifestyle anymore. If they want to be unhealthy, that is their choice and they can do it on their own without my help.
lol..if you want to use that word as the reason for what you are doing isn't the same then have at...
but you are forcing your family into a lifestyle that they are not choosing you are...
if your husband asks you to pick up a bag of chips at the store while you are out are you really going to say No? If your child asks you for you to pick up some cookies as a treat or donuts are you going to look at them and say go get it yourself?
oh and how is food like oh moon pies aka carmel cakes, joe louis etc unhealthy???? it's food...and when eaten in moderation there is nothing unhealthy about it.
7 -
Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
No but if a family has a shred of compassion for the one dieting they would support them and not blame them...
I didn't see mention of blame.
Support <>giving up the stuff they want/love2 -
magster4isu wrote: »magster4isu wrote: »magster4isu wrote: »Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
I'm not dieting, I'm changing to a healthy lifestyle. If I'm doing the cooking and the grocery shopping, then yes, my family will be changing to a healthy lifestyle, too. If they choose to continue with an unhealthy lifestyle, I'm not going to stop them, but I'm not going to enable them either.
Isn't that making them too??? sounds like it's being forced on them...unless you are like me...*see below
I do the cooking and shopping too but I make sure I ask my husband "is there anything you want me to pick up for you?" and if he says chips I get them...or if my son asks for moon pies...fine. I frequently cook calorie dense food items...for my family...they are men and need it more than I do so I just take a smaller portion.
I will even cook calorie dense brownie bottomed peanut butter cheese cake for them if they ask...
I am not enabling an unhealthy lifestyle...I am displaying and participating in a life of moderation.
I think you missed the part where I said that I am NOT dieting but changing to a healthy lifestyle. Yes, a healthy lifestyle sometimes includes calorie dense foods.
I am not making them do anything. If they want a moon pie, they can go out and buy a moon pie. I won't stop them. I just won't be buying it for them.
so you are forcing the change on them because prior to you deciding that it was time for you to "get healthy" I expect that things that they wanted even if not the most healthy were part of the groceries at some point and that they were not told "go buy it yourself"...
see I would equate that to my husband not shovelling my side of the driveway...he always did shovel it but now that I am getting healthy he thinks I should do that...heck no...that's his job..mine is to get the groceries and cook for the family and I won't impose my will on them...anymore than I would want them to do it to me.
and I didn't mention dieting either...
The OP said "Your family should not be forced to diet with you". I stated that I am not dieting. Dieting implies that you are trying to lose weight. I am NOT forcing my family to lose weight (diet). The only change happening is that I am not enabling an unhealthy lifestyle anymore. If they want to be unhealthy, that is their choice and they can do it on their own without my help.
lol..if you want to use that word as the reason for what you are doing isn't the same then have at...
but you are forcing your family into a lifestyle that they are not choosing you are...
if your husband asks you to pick up a bag of chips at the store while you are out are you really going to say No? If your child asks you for you to pick up some cookies as a treat or donuts are you going to look at them and say go get it yourself?
oh and how is food like oh moon pies aka carmel cakes, joe louis etc unhealthy???? it's food...and when eaten in moderation there is nothing unhealthy about it.
You do you and I'll do me. I'm not forcing my family to do anything and they would agree with me.4 -
Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
No but if a family has a shred of compassion for the one dieting they would support them and not blame them...
I didn't see mention of blame.
Support <>giving up the stuff they want/love
"it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished..."
Really?4 -
magster4isu wrote: »magster4isu wrote: »magster4isu wrote: »magster4isu wrote: »Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.
I'm not dieting, I'm changing to a healthy lifestyle. If I'm doing the cooking and the grocery shopping, then yes, my family will be changing to a healthy lifestyle, too. If they choose to continue with an unhealthy lifestyle, I'm not going to stop them, but I'm not going to enable them either.
Isn't that making them too??? sounds like it's being forced on them...unless you are like me...*see below
I do the cooking and shopping too but I make sure I ask my husband "is there anything you want me to pick up for you?" and if he says chips I get them...or if my son asks for moon pies...fine. I frequently cook calorie dense food items...for my family...they are men and need it more than I do so I just take a smaller portion.
I will even cook calorie dense brownie bottomed peanut butter cheese cake for them if they ask...
I am not enabling an unhealthy lifestyle...I am displaying and participating in a life of moderation.
I think you missed the part where I said that I am NOT dieting but changing to a healthy lifestyle. Yes, a healthy lifestyle sometimes includes calorie dense foods.
I am not making them do anything. If they want a moon pie, they can go out and buy a moon pie. I won't stop them. I just won't be buying it for them.
so you are forcing the change on them because prior to you deciding that it was time for you to "get healthy" I expect that things that they wanted even if not the most healthy were part of the groceries at some point and that they were not told "go buy it yourself"...
see I would equate that to my husband not shovelling my side of the driveway...he always did shovel it but now that I am getting healthy he thinks I should do that...heck no...that's his job..mine is to get the groceries and cook for the family and I won't impose my will on them...anymore than I would want them to do it to me.
and I didn't mention dieting either...
The OP said "Your family should not be forced to diet with you". I stated that I am not dieting. Dieting implies that you are trying to lose weight. I am NOT forcing my family to lose weight (diet). The only change happening is that I am not enabling an unhealthy lifestyle anymore. If they want to be unhealthy, that is their choice and they can do it on their own without my help.
lol..if you want to use that word as the reason for what you are doing isn't the same then have at...
but you are forcing your family into a lifestyle that they are not choosing you are...
if your husband asks you to pick up a bag of chips at the store while you are out are you really going to say No? If your child asks you for you to pick up some cookies as a treat or donuts are you going to look at them and say go get it yourself?
oh and how is food like oh moon pies aka carmel cakes, joe louis etc unhealthy???? it's food...and when eaten in moderation there is nothing unhealthy about it.
You do you and I'll do me. I'm not forcing my family to do anything and they would agree with me.
Even if you were (and I'm not suggesting your are), so what? You are the parent.4
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions