Why are people so negative regarding clean eating?

From my memory, the first post was a pretty innocuous statement from OP saying she didn't know much about clean eating and what it was all about, was looking for advice/friends. The next several posts were mostly from people saying something brief but disparaging about what they didn't like about clean eaters. THe OP could very have gotten sanctimonious, I truly have no idea and wouldn't dispute it, but I am pretty sure what you're reading was not near the beginning of the post. It was a shoving match from the second post on.

I can only comment on what I can see. The first 'negative' post is what I quoted, all the ones before that are from people who also eat clean for various reasons.

People are biased toward the first things they hear and things that support what they already believe, and they tend to remember negative things and things that are unusual to them. If the first thing someone encounters on this forums is on the rabid side and they've been exposed to the thin=snobby stereotype, you've got all four of these things at the same time, which combined with being relatively anonymous around here is a recipe for forum wars.

Just sayin'.

From my memory, the first post was a pretty innocuous statement from OP saying she didn't know much about clean eating and what it was all about, was looking for advice/friends. The next several posts were mostly from people saying something brief but disparaging about what they didn't like about clean eaters. THe OP could very have gotten sanctimonious, I truly have no idea and wouldn't dispute it, but I am pretty sure what you're reading was not near the beginning of the post. It was a shoving match from the second post on.

I'm reading a cached version of that thread now. The original post was bland enough in a TL;DR way, but the third post was someone talking smack about someone who follows IIFYM. A few posts later, the OP joins in on the smack talk. There's nothing negative said about clean eating or clean eaters on the first page.

Moderation gets mentioned a few times on the second page. Still no drama, until... Chelsifina get offended and calls someone "aggressive, judgmental, and arrogant" for saying that "there's something to be said for not fearing food and for being able to learn self-control."

*sigh*

Also I've given the matter some thought and I think I'll also keep a record of all anti-lifting posts. That way I can be a little more well rounded. Your suggestion was a very good one.

The anti-lifting comments are the most entertaining of all the anti- comments, so I would greatly appreciate it if you would. I hope that's next weekend's drama. I'm not even a clean eater, and anti-vegan generalizations are too personal for me to usually participate, but I do like lifting and have no ethical beliefs behind it, so that should be fun for me, assuming my doctor doesn't lift my rest sentence by then.

Anti-lifting threads are actually my favorite as well. Clean eating/IIFYM is a little too 'personal' because really everyone should eat what they enjoy in moderation and we should all STFU from there. I'm fine with clean eating (I eat mostly clean, I've got clean eaters, people on Paleo, people doing keto, veggies, and so on on my FL. I like them all and they all eat lots of tasty food I would eat.)

But lifting! People angry about lifting are just funny. I feel like for the most part everyone can get together and chuckle at those people.

Anti-lifting threads are actually my favorite as well. Clean eating/IIFYM is a little too 'personal' because really everyone should eat what they enjoy in moderation and we should all STFU from there. I'm fine with clean eating (I eat mostly clean, I've got clean eaters, people on Paleo, people doing keto, veggies, and so on on my FL. I like them all and they all eat lots of tasty food I would eat.)

But lifting! People angry about lifting are just funny. I feel like for the most part everyone can get together and chuckle at those people.

Yes, I agree 100% with you on this entire post.

You can probably spot who was told they should be lawyers growing up when they can agree 100% on the final message and argue with one another all the way getting there.

:flowerforyou:

Ooh I've never had a pop tart...now i have to out of curiosity!

Pop Tarts are Rubbish, Toaster Strudels are where its at!

going to have to Google that one...but I am moderately excited at the prospect!

Toasted poptarts + ice cream sammich > Toaster strudel + ice cream

Toaster Strudel (with no ice cream) > Poptart (with no ice cream)

Either with ice cream > either without ice cream

I said in caps that this statement was not 100% of people, it was a general statement. Good for you on your social behavior. I was talking about, and I've seen it more than once is oh no I can't have that I'm watching what I eat" etc. That can come off as offensive. As well as that attitude my eating is better, or I have more will power. I was just addressing many points made in this thread. It was someone else who said clean eaters had more determination, I was just addressing that.

I know it wasn't 100% of people, I read that, but your "I just know" what other people are thinking makes me think it's a bit more personal than that. If you take offense to people saying, "Oh no, I can't have that, I'm watching what I eat," you may want to look at why. Unless they launch into a tirade about you, or about the food being disgusting and filthy, you are probably taking it too personally. I find it a lot more rude to expect people to eat something they don't want to in order to avoid others feeling a certain way about a choice that has nothing at all to do with them.

And this post was about clean eaters so please don't get me started about other group of people in the world (clean eaters, IIFYM, vegans, Christians, Caucasians, Asians, cat people, anti-baby people, parents). That is not what we are addressing here.

You missed the point. Singling out arrogant people from a certain group to make a point is meaningless unless you are really trying to make a point about the whole group while appearing like you are not. Arrogant people are arrogant-it will likely reflect in what they do. Some arrogant people may consider themselves elitist eaters, which I almost can't type without laughing. How does this sentence sound: "People who eat whatever they want are arrogant because I just know they are rubbing it in my face that they work out more than me and can afford to eat that. I don't mean all of them, just SOME of the people who eat whatever they want." Sounds pretty silly, put that way. Or do you really know that many clean eaters in your life, who are watching you take white rice and bread, that you can have all these general feelings about them?

And although its not "your fault" if the way you word your choices makes people feel bad, we can all edit our sentences so our choices don't effect anyone. That's what I was getting at, so if you aren't the rude one at a work function awesome! Go you

Of course we can all edit our thoughts! I definitely do so routinely when posting on MFP. Saying, "I'm sorry, I can't eat that right now" is not rude, and if someone feels defensive because of it, that's so far outside of my control I can't worry about that. You may ask, "Why add the not right now?" Because people always feel entitled to ask why someone doesn't eat the meatloaf or the rice or whatever. People shouldn't have to lie and make excuses when the simply truth isn't offensive.

All I wanted to address is that there are some clean eaters that have a high sense of entitlement and that does cause "dirty" eaters to be defensive.

There are clean eaters with a high sense of entitlement, and do not let them cause you to feel defensive. Be ok with what you eat and why, and you won't allow others to make you feel defensive. I get ridiculed for my diet, and while sometimes I get sick of it, I never feel defensive, because I don't care what others think about the food that goes in my mouth. I also don't apologize for not taking a scoop of the chicken salad because someone else may feel bad.
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At my bbq's everyone who comes is a gym member and we all eat healthy so it's all healthy food right now. It's not personal, it was just an opinion about the topic of the thread. Why are people negative about clean eating it could be that some people who0 eat clean have a sense of entitlement but not all. It's not personal and have not posted on a clean eating board before or received a nasty message. It's in no way personal, I must not be the best at articulating how I feel and maybe because it's over the internet you got the vibe that something has effected me personally but you are digging to deep into things. I have said some of the same points others have. And sometimes clean eaters, vegans, vegetarians, etc do make it a bit hard on others for functions, I only know this because I've read msg boards that are like "OMG oh no ANOTHER potluck at work! GUH I hate my life people try to sabotage me" and all that garbage. So it's just me seeing posts asking for support on how to deal with other peoples food choices and going to bbq's. I didn't think it would be dissected as a defensive response to a traumatic incident with a clean eater. Take things with a grain of salt if I am not talking about you. If you don't fit into my statement good on ya and pass by. I was just giving a reason as to why dirty eaters may be defensive. Obviously the reasons I gave are invalid, and dirty eaters don't think some are entitled, or preachy, or make functions difficult. Obviously I am WAY off base. Don't read this as mad either, my greatest quality is my tenacity. I am usually always smiling and easy going, I am trying to type this light and with no anger so don't rad my posts that way. When I read your response to my post I felt like you obviously read it as an attack or a b!tchy post. And it was SO not wrote that way. It was just my 2 cents said in a normal everyday tone.

Too hard not to pop in especially when I see the same common users in here. I agree with much of what everyone is saying, I think both the "clean eaters" and "dirty eaters" are pretty much in agreeance over the same issues. Eat well balanced, get your proper nutrition, splurge in moderation when you need to, be realistic, have a well balanced diet you can stick with long term, stay active, include weight training. I just think this " IIFYM fad" is another diet label. I personally stay away from any and all diets.

All the attacking is a bit out of hand though. If you mention you try to avoid bacon, white rice, or ice cream watch out! I think what the IIFYM crew doesn't realize is just because someone tries to avoid a certain type of food doesn't mean that they never eat it and any user has the right to think a certain type of food is not the healthiest option without getting a barrage of attacks for your difference of opinion.

This made me laugh a bit about the 'IIFYM crowd." People think that's the highest level of leniency. People forget about the IIFYC(IF It Fits your Calories) crowd. The IIFYM crowd think they're superior to the clean eaters, the IIFYC crowd think they're superior than the IIFYM crowd. It depends on the level of abstraction.

My question to you is... you mentioned IIFYM as a fad. I do kind of agree with you, just curious what eating/dietary method you would consider that's not a fad?

I don't follow any of them, so I agree they're all fads, diets, labels whatever you want to call them. There is no right or wrong way. I concentrate on the overall lifestyle and try to work with clients on in individual basis. My objective is to make a lifestyle change, not just to focus on weight loss. For some people substitutions work, some people need more resistance training, some are very successful counting their calories, some people actually prefer to eat no "dirty foods" at all. I have clients that are very into organic and don't even believe in microwaving food because it zaps the nutrients. Everyone is truly different and using one method is just not realistic for myself, probably many of the people on these boards, or my clients. I think some of these "crowds" do have a superiority complex and I can see how it can be frustrating and discouraging for some of the members on these forums.

Legit question: do you get your clients to try to hit certain macronutrients within their dietary parameters?

I don't tell them they must hit a certain specific number everyday, but I encourage them to keep a balance and pay attention to what they are eating, if their diet is 50% carbs, I advise to cut some carbs and add in more protein. I don't think anyone is perfect and don't have them strive for perfection. I also encourage getting enough fiber and in order to get that fiber some substitutions might need to be made like eating more whole grains and vegetables. I also believe in getting your vitamins from natural sources instead of man made vitamins or foods that are fortified. This encourages the consumption of veggies, fruits, proteins, fish, whole grains..or in other words a nice balanced diet.

I actually personally have a very similar diet myself to the IIFYM crowd as I love certain treats and I am able to eat them because I don't go overboard. I always have enough calories in my day to include them. While I don't calculate it out to a specific number of calories, I have gotten good at just doing it naturally. I have no problem with this approach at all and think it can be very beneficial for a lot of people, I just don't think its the only approach that works, or that is has to be one or the other. There are good points to all these various diets/ views points and they can all be used together.

Thank you for the response.

While we have disagreed on some threads, I think that you will find that most of my advice/recommendations etc are actually along these lines. As we are on a site that allows you to focus on macros, then I do suggest that people try to hit them (set appropriately for them), but I agree that many people can do this if they pay attention to their diet as a whole without having to actually log. The same goes for micronutrients and fiber. If you eat a balanced diet with a good proportion and mix of nutrient dense foods (fruits, veggies etc), then you are a long way to getting or exceeding your requirements. As I noted on a prior post, some people do better at avoiding certain trigger foods, some do better at not eating any non 'whole' foods for satiety reason etc, but at the end of the day, having flexible dieting as a starting point and adapting it to suit your needs is beneficial for the majority of people in my opinion.

When I read your response to my post I felt like you obviously read it as an attack or a b!tchy post. And it was SO not wrote that way. It was just my 2 cents said in a normal everyday tone.

No, I don't feel it was an attack or betchy, I just disagreed with your post. I'm not really looking for hidden meanings in what people say, more just calling it as I see/perceive it. Your posts likewise didn't change my mind, but I'm out of steam on this thread, and I don't really see any value in repeating the arguments I've already made, as I feel you and I (and others) would just go round and round on it, and I'm Team Dean, so I can't close these gates of hell.

Edit: re-reading your last post, a few lines could be taken as offensive, but so be it. I don't twist to sound intelligent, unless I am being dry or droll on purpose.

Are you looking for hidden meanings when you see through me? :noway:

When I read your response to my post I felt like you obviously read it as an attack or a b!tchy post. And it was SO not wrote that way. It was just my 2 cents said in a normal everyday tone.

No, I don't feel it was an attack or betchy, I just disagreed with your post. I'm not really looking for hidden meanings in what people say, more just calling it as I see/perceive it. Your posts likewise didn't change my mind, but I'm out of steam on this thread, and I don't really see any value in repeating the arguments I've already made, as I feel you and I (and others) would just go round and round on it, and I'm Team Dean, so I can't close these gates of hell.

Absolutely. The negativity is not aimed at eating clean. Plenty of people eat clean. Sara eats clean. JQ eats pretty clean. SideSteel eats fairly clean. Those are 3 of my idols on this site.

Depends on the interpretation of clean. I eat what I think is clean 80% of the time (I consume a lot of milk and processed yet 'made of whole food' meat alternatives) and eat a mix of grubby and positively filthy for the rest (unless its last week as it was the end of my bulk so all bets were off).

And thank you :flowerforyou:

Again, this is just me personally but I find if I eat whatever I want, I overdo it and binge. If I eat ice cream I just want more and more, I can't keep it below my cal limit. I find clean eating makes it easier. Why bash me for eating clean.

So ice cream isn't clean? What about Talenti ice cream?

Have you ever looked at an ingredient list for most ice creams? I have never heard of that brand so I can't say.
I am avoiding dairy at the moment because I may be intolerant so I don't eat ice cream anyways but when I did, I have been known to eat a whole 2L tub in one sitting.

Try this 150 calories for the entire pint! Lactose and gluten free. It tastes like a wendy's frosty.

I am just going to weigh in here on this... I am a clean eater (most of the time...I am not perfect) and I have been for many years, long before I joined mfp. My experience here with other clean eaters has been negative, as they (some not all) have been judgemental, condescending, and at times quite rude. So my thought is that perhaps some of the negativity is aimed more at those individuals rather than clean eating itself. Furthermore, clean eating has so many different definitions depending on who you talk to that it has become a bit of a fad term if you will. For me it is eating the way earlier generations did, preparing meals themselves, knowing what went into their food, when cooking was cooking, not science, when preserving meant you were making jam or relish or pickles :-)

I subscribe to the 'to each their own' philosphy, I know clean eating makes me feel better, and I see it as common sense, but not everyone does. Like anything in life we have to read absorb and determine what info is relevant to us, the same applies to life on mfp.

Wishing everyone their own kind of success...cheers!

I agree with this. I think it's a little bit that the newly converted (to almost anything) can be overbearing. So the newly zealous clean eaters, sometimes, speak as if everyone else is eating trash and it gets annoying.

These threads crack me up because if people could/did see the diaries of those they have designated king/queen of McDonalds/Poptarts/ice cream they would see - for the most part - healthy breakfast, lunch and dinner with a treat or two listed under their snacks. No different from an 80/20 or even 90/10 "clean" eater.

Too hard not to pop in especially when I see the same common users in here. I agree with much of what everyone is saying, I think both the "clean eaters" and "dirty eaters" are pretty much in agreeance over the same issues. Eat well balanced, get your proper nutrition, splurge in moderation when you need to, be realistic, have a well balanced diet you can stick with long term, stay active, include weight training. I just think this " IIFYM fad" is another diet label. I personally stay away from any and all diets.

All the attacking is a bit out of hand though. If you mention you try to avoid bacon, white rice, or ice cream watch out! I think what the IIFYM crew doesn't realize is just because someone tries to avoid a certain type of food doesn't mean that they never eat it and any user has the right to think a certain type of food is not the healthiest option without getting a barrage of attacks for your difference of opinion.

This made me laugh a bit about the 'IIFYM crowd." People think that's the highest level of leniency. People forget about the IIFYC(IF It Fits your Calories) crowd. The IIFYM crowd think they're superior to the clean eaters, the IIFYC crowd think they're superior than the IIFYM crowd. It depends on the level of abstraction.

My question to you is... you mentioned IIFYM as a fad. I do kind of agree with you, just curious what eating/dietary method you would consider that's not a fad?

I don't follow any of them, so I agree they're all fads, diets, labels whatever you want to call them. There is no right or wrong way. I concentrate on the overall lifestyle and try to work with clients on in individual basis. My objective is to make a lifestyle change, not just to focus on weight loss. For some people substitutions work, some people need more resistance training, some are very successful counting their calories, some people actually prefer to eat no "dirty foods" at all. I have clients that are very into organic and don't even believe in microwaving food because it zaps the nutrients. Everyone is truly different and using one method is just not realistic for myself, probably many of the people on these boards, or my clients. I think some of these "crowds" do have a superiority complex and I can see how it can be frustrating and discouraging for some of the members on these forums.

Legit question: do you get your clients to try to hit certain macronutrients within their dietary parameters?

I don't tell them they must hit a certain specific number everyday, but I encourage them to keep a balance and pay attention to what they are eating, if their diet is 50% carbs, I advise to cut some carbs and add in more protein. I don't think anyone is perfect and don't have them strive for perfection. I also encourage getting enough fiber and in order to get that fiber some substitutions might need to be made like eating more whole grains and vegetables. I also believe in getting your vitamins from natural sources instead of man made vitamins or foods that are fortified. This encourages the consumption of veggies, fruits, proteins, fish, whole grains..or in other words a nice balanced diet.

I actually personally have a very similar diet myself to the IIFYM crowd as I love certain treats and I am able to eat them because I don't go overboard. I always have enough calories in my day to include them. While I don't calculate it out to a specific number of calories, I have gotten good at just doing it naturally. I have no problem with this approach at all and think it can be very beneficial for a lot of people, I just don't think its the only approach that works, or that is has to be one or the other. There are good points to all these various diets/ views points and they can all be used together.

Thank you for the response.

While we have disagreed on some threads, I think that you will find that most of my advice/recommendations etc are actually along these lines. As we are on a site that allows you to focus on macros, then I do suggest that people try to hit them (set appropriately for them), but I agree that many people can do this if they pay attention to their diet as a whole without having to actually log. The same goes for micronutrients and fiber. If you eat a balanced diet with a good proportion and mix of nutrient dense foods (fruits, veggies etc), then you are a long way to getting or exceeding your requirements. As I noted on a prior post, some people do better at avoiding certain trigger foods, some do better at not eating any non 'whole' foods for satiety reason etc, but at the end of the day, having flexible dieting as a starting point and adapting it to suit your needs is beneficial for the majority of people in my opinion.

Agreed

Both sides shove **** down the other sides' throats and it's just a perpetual battle of stupidity.

^ This. All day long.