What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?

mmapags wrote: »

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Bry_Lander wrote: »

Alatariel75 wrote: »

So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?

Activities like gymnastics, golf, high diving, etc., can be engaged in totally alone, they just happen to be done collectively in competition.

mmapags wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

jdlobb wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

jdlobb wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

not_a_runner wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.

you might want to revamp this list...

synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games

sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...

The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.

One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.

A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.

The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.

the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.

scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...

tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.

so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...

btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves

Focusing on this part of your definition:

…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...

I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.

In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.

It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.

I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.

Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports

You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.

Not complicated

A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?

You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.

you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"

Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)

What ambiguity?

Physical exertion/skill + competition = sport

The “defense” bit is a fictional add-on of your own making.

Every sports organization, including the Olympics themselves, as well as the general populace all disagree with your claim that direct defense is a requirement of sport.
Perhaps where there is no one governing body to offer a single definition, it would be helpful to look to the whole host of authoritative bodies which happen to all agree that a sport does not require the opportunity to defend against one’s opponent.

Use some critical thinking, man.

You didn’t like my critical thinking and labeled it as “fiction”, so I’m thinking that analysis resulting in a conclusion that conflicts with your opinion is fiction and within is “critical thinking”.

The beauty of this topic (for some people) is that there is no correct answer that can be declared by any objective authority - if the International Hopscotch Organization declares hopscotch a “sport”, do you think that just maybe it is because they have an interest in declaring their activity a sport?

The bit about a defensive element being required to qualify as a sport doesn’t exist in any accepted definition of the word “sport.”
Thus, I can only derive that you invented this qualifier yourself which makes it fiction.

As for your critical thinking being fiction, that’s not what I said but considering that I’ve seen no evidence that you’ve thought critically about this debate, yeah, I’ll roll with it.

Also, it’s not just the PGA declaring golf a sport. It’s the Olympic committee and every sports organization in the history of mankind that disagrees with your assertion.
Also the general population.

I realize there is a lot of comfort in groupthink. Discussion about the subjective can be painful, but conceptual thinking can be really gratifying if you just give it a chance. In this case, the stakes are very low, and the consequences of considering different opinions are few (gasp, different opinions on subjective concepts?)

What constitutes a sport is completely subjective and therefore can be defined individually - if it doesn’t have defense, it is just a competitive activity. My apologies to the World Rock Paper Scissors Society, professional ostrich racers, competitive square dancing leagues, the winner of the pie eating contest at the county fair last summer, and the “general public” and all of its wisdom...

In other words, you want to create your own definition of a pre-existing word and if I disagree then I’m just seeking the comfort of groupthink.

Lol. K.

I did not create my own definition, here is the definition of a sport that was posted pages ago:

sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

As I stated, I interpret "competes against another or others" as actually being in physical opposition, defending against one another and able to disrupt your opponent. Not taking turns swinging a club in golf and seeing who has the least amount of strokes, not performing a routine in a pool by yourself and then comparing a judge's score to other people performing a routine by themselves in a pool in synchronized swimming, not alternatively throwing darts at a board. Competing against another is attempting to block a shot or steal the ball in basketball, throwing a pitch by a batter or tagging someone out at home plate in baseball, a goaltender blocking a shot in soccer, etc.

And as has been made abundantly clear, you are the only one who has this interpretation. Thus it is your own subjective, editorial opinion and not shared by any objective source. I would hope it would be evident to you almost everyone who has posted has disagreed. Although you gaslight that as "groupthink".

I once heard a wise man say, when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, you are wrong. But hey, feel free to live in your own little world. If nothing else, I will give you credit for amazing stamina in sticking to an unfounded opinion that is unsupported by any objective source.

1) It should be fairly obvious at this point that democracy/the majority/mob rule doesn't always determine the optimal solution.

2) The opposition to my opinion is not supported by an objective source, either, because again, this is a discussion about a subjective topic. It is conceptual. It is okay to have a separate interpretation, the Earth will still continue to spin if we don't all agree on a common definition of something.

mmapags wrote: »

Alatariel75 wrote: »

So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?

Apparently not. Unless someone is trying to tackle you while you get your score?

Tackling is actually a penalty in some sports, you can't really get away with it in soccer, hockey, baseball, etc. But they are still sports because they are defending each other in different ways. Lawn darts, competitive fishing, and beer pong? No defense whatsoever, and not sports...

Yeah, I guess the International Olympic Committee wouldn't be considered an objective source by anyone. Strong logic there.

Bry_Lander wrote: »

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Alatariel75 wrote: »

So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?

Activities like gymnastics, golf, high diving, etc., can be engaged in totally alone, they just happen to be done collectively in competition.

show previous quotes

mmapags wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

jdlobb wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

jdlobb wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

not_a_runner wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.

you might want to revamp this list...

synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games

sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...

The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.

One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.

A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.

The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.

the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.

scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...

tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.

so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...

btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves

Focusing on this part of your definition:

…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...

I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.

In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.

It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.

I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.

Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports

You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.

Not complicated

A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?

You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.

you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"

Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)

What ambiguity?

Physical exertion/skill + competition = sport

The “defense” bit is a fictional add-on of your own making.

Every sports organization, including the Olympics themselves, as well as the general populace all disagree with your claim that direct defense is a requirement of sport.
Perhaps where there is no one governing body to offer a single definition, it would be helpful to look to the whole host of authoritative bodies which happen to all agree that a sport does not require the opportunity to defend against one’s opponent.

Use some critical thinking, man.

You didn’t like my critical thinking and labeled it as “fiction”, so I’m thinking that analysis resulting in a conclusion that conflicts with your opinion is fiction and within is “critical thinking”.

The beauty of this topic (for some people) is that there is no correct answer that can be declared by any objective authority - if the International Hopscotch Organization declares hopscotch a “sport”, do you think that just maybe it is because they have an interest in declaring their activity a sport?

The bit about a defensive element being required to qualify as a sport doesn’t exist in any accepted definition of the word “sport.”
Thus, I can only derive that you invented this qualifier yourself which makes it fiction.

As for your critical thinking being fiction, that’s not what I said but considering that I’ve seen no evidence that you’ve thought critically about this debate, yeah, I’ll roll with it.

Also, it’s not just the PGA declaring golf a sport. It’s the Olympic committee and every sports organization in the history of mankind that disagrees with your assertion.
Also the general population.

I realize there is a lot of comfort in groupthink. Discussion about the subjective can be painful, but conceptual thinking can be really gratifying if you just give it a chance. In this case, the stakes are very low, and the consequences of considering different opinions are few (gasp, different opinions on subjective concepts?)

What constitutes a sport is completely subjective and therefore can be defined individually - if it doesn’t have defense, it is just a competitive activity. My apologies to the World Rock Paper Scissors Society, professional ostrich racers, competitive square dancing leagues, the winner of the pie eating contest at the county fair last summer, and the “general public” and all of its wisdom...

In other words, you want to create your own definition of a pre-existing word and if I disagree then I’m just seeking the comfort of groupthink.

Lol. K.

I did not create my own definition, here is the definition of a sport that was posted pages ago:

sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

As I stated, I interpret "competes against another or others" as actually being in physical opposition, defending against one another and able to disrupt your opponent. Not taking turns swinging a club in golf and seeing who has the least amount of strokes, not performing a routine in a pool by yourself and then comparing a judge's score to other people performing a routine by themselves in a pool in synchronized swimming, not alternatively throwing darts at a board. Competing against another is attempting to block a shot or steal the ball in basketball, throwing a pitch by a batter or tagging someone out at home plate in baseball, a goaltender blocking a shot in soccer, etc.

And as has been made abundantly clear, you are the only one who has this interpretation. Thus it is your own subjective, editorial opinion and not shared by any objective source. I would hope it would be evident to you almost everyone who has posted has disagreed. Although you gaslight that as "groupthink".

I once heard a wise man say, when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, you are wrong. But hey, feel free to live in your own little world. If nothing else, I will give you credit for amazing stamina in sticking to an unfounded opinion that is unsupported by any objective source.

1) It should be fairly obvious at this point that democracy/the majority/mob rule doesn't always determine the optimal solution.

2) The opposition to my opinion is not supported by an objective source, either, because again, this is a discussion about a subjective topic. It is conceptual. It is okay to have a separate interpretation, the Earth will still continue to spin if we don't all agree on a common definition of something.

show previous quotes

mmapags wrote: »

Alatariel75 wrote: »

So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?

Apparently not. Unless someone is trying to tackle you while you get your score?

Tackling is actually a penalty in some sports, you can't really get away with it in soccer, hockey, baseball, etc. But they are still sports because they are defending each other in different ways. Lawn darts, competitive fishing, and beer pong? No defense whatsoever, and not sports...

nutmegoreo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Bry_Lander wrote: »

Alatariel75 wrote: »

So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?

Activities like gymnastics, golf, high diving, etc., can be engaged in totally alone, they just happen to be done collectively in competition.

mmapags wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

jdlobb wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

jdlobb wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

not_a_runner wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.

you might want to revamp this list...

synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games

sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...

The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.

One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.

A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.

The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.

the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.

scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...

tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.

so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...

btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves

Focusing on this part of your definition:

…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...

I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.

In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.

It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.

I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.

Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports

You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.

Not complicated

A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?

You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.

you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"

Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)

What ambiguity?

Physical exertion/skill + competition = sport

The “defense” bit is a fictional add-on of your own making.

Every sports organization, including the Olympics themselves, as well as the general populace all disagree with your claim that direct defense is a requirement of sport.
Perhaps where there is no one governing body to offer a single definition, it would be helpful to look to the whole host of authoritative bodies which happen to all agree that a sport does not require the opportunity to defend against one’s opponent.

Use some critical thinking, man.

You didn’t like my critical thinking and labeled it as “fiction”, so I’m thinking that analysis resulting in a conclusion that conflicts with your opinion is fiction and within is “critical thinking”.

The beauty of this topic (for some people) is that there is no correct answer that can be declared by any objective authority - if the International Hopscotch Organization declares hopscotch a “sport”, do you think that just maybe it is because they have an interest in declaring their activity a sport?

The bit about a defensive element being required to qualify as a sport doesn’t exist in any accepted definition of the word “sport.”
Thus, I can only derive that you invented this qualifier yourself which makes it fiction.

As for your critical thinking being fiction, that’s not what I said but considering that I’ve seen no evidence that you’ve thought critically about this debate, yeah, I’ll roll with it.

Also, it’s not just the PGA declaring golf a sport. It’s the Olympic committee and every sports organization in the history of mankind that disagrees with your assertion.
Also the general population.

I realize there is a lot of comfort in groupthink. Discussion about the subjective can be painful, but conceptual thinking can be really gratifying if you just give it a chance. In this case, the stakes are very low, and the consequences of considering different opinions are few (gasp, different opinions on subjective concepts?)

What constitutes a sport is completely subjective and therefore can be defined individually - if it doesn’t have defense, it is just a competitive activity. My apologies to the World Rock Paper Scissors Society, professional ostrich racers, competitive square dancing leagues, the winner of the pie eating contest at the county fair last summer, and the “general public” and all of its wisdom...

In other words, you want to create your own definition of a pre-existing word and if I disagree then I’m just seeking the comfort of groupthink.

Lol. K.

I did not create my own definition, here is the definition of a sport that was posted pages ago:

sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

As I stated, I interpret "competes against another or others" as actually being in physical opposition, defending against one another and able to disrupt your opponent. Not taking turns swinging a club in golf and seeing who has the least amount of strokes, not performing a routine in a pool by yourself and then comparing a judge's score to other people performing a routine by themselves in a pool in synchronized swimming, not alternatively throwing darts at a board. Competing against another is attempting to block a shot or steal the ball in basketball, throwing a pitch by a batter or tagging someone out at home plate in baseball, a goaltender blocking a shot in soccer, etc.

And as has been made abundantly clear, you are the only one who has this interpretation. Thus it is your own subjective, editorial opinion and not shared by any objective source. I would hope it would be evident to you almost everyone who has posted has disagreed. Although you gaslight that as "groupthink".

I once heard a wise man say, when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, you are wrong. But hey, feel free to live in your own little world. If nothing else, I will give you credit for amazing stamina in sticking to an unfounded opinion that is unsupported by any objective source.

1) It should be fairly obvious at this point that democracy/the majority/mob rule doesn't always determine the optimal solution.

2) The opposition to my opinion is not supported by an objective source, either, because again, this is a discussion about a subjective topic. It is conceptual. It is okay to have a separate interpretation, the Earth will still continue to spin if we don't all agree on a common definition of something.

mmapags wrote: »

Alatariel75 wrote: »

So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?

Apparently not. Unless someone is trying to tackle you while you get your score?

Tackling is actually a penalty in some sports, you can't really get away with it in soccer, hockey, baseball, etc. But they are still sports because they are defending each other in different ways. Lawn darts, competitive fishing, and beer pong? No defense whatsoever, and not sports...

You're doing it wrong :laugh:

Bry_Lander wrote: »

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SezxyStef wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

mmapags wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

Alatariel75 wrote: »

So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?

Activities like gymnastics, golf, high diving, etc., can be engaged in totally alone, they just happen to be done collectively in competition.

mmapags wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

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Carlos_421 wrote: »

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jdlobb wrote: »

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jdlobb wrote: »

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not_a_runner wrote: »

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SezxyStef wrote: »

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SezxyStef wrote: »

Bry_Lander wrote: »

There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.

you might want to revamp this list...

synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games

sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...

The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.

One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.

A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.

The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.

the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.

scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...

tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.

so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...

btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves

Focusing on this part of your definition:

…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...

I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.

In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.

It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.

I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.

Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports

You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.

Not complicated

A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?

You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.

you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"

Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)

What ambiguity?

Physical exertion/skill + competition = sport

The “defense” bit is a fictional add-on of your own making.

Every sports organization, including the Olympics themselves, as well as the general populace all disagree with your claim that direct defense is a requirement of sport.
Perhaps where there is no one governing body to offer a single definition, it would be helpful to look to the whole host of authoritative bodies which happen to all agree that a sport does not require the opportunity to defend against one’s opponent.

Use some critical thinking, man.

You didn’t like my critical thinking and labeled it as “fiction”, so I’m thinking that analysis resulting in a conclusion that conflicts with your opinion is fiction and within is “critical thinking”.

The beauty of this topic (for some people) is that there is no correct answer that can be declared by any objective authority - if the International Hopscotch Organization declares hopscotch a “sport”, do you think that just maybe it is because they have an interest in declaring their activity a sport?

The bit about a defensive element being required to qualify as a sport doesn’t exist in any accepted definition of the word “sport.”
Thus, I can only derive that you invented this qualifier yourself which makes it fiction.

As for your critical thinking being fiction, that’s not what I said but considering that I’ve seen no evidence that you’ve thought critically about this debate, yeah, I’ll roll with it.

Also, it’s not just the PGA declaring golf a sport. It’s the Olympic committee and every sports organization in the history of mankind that disagrees with your assertion.
Also the general population.

I realize there is a lot of comfort in groupthink. Discussion about the subjective can be painful, but conceptual thinking can be really gratifying if you just give it a chance. In this case, the stakes are very low, and the consequences of considering different opinions are few (gasp, different opinions on subjective concepts?)

What constitutes a sport is completely subjective and therefore can be defined individually - if it doesn’t have defense, it is just a competitive activity. My apologies to the World Rock Paper Scissors Society, professional ostrich racers, competitive square dancing leagues, the winner of the pie eating contest at the county fair last summer, and the “general public” and all of its wisdom...

In other words, you want to create your own definition of a pre-existing word and if I disagree then I’m just seeking the comfort of groupthink.

Lol. K.

I did not create my own definition, here is the definition of a sport that was posted pages ago:

sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

As I stated, I interpret "competes against another or others" as actually being in physical opposition, defending against one another and able to disrupt your opponent. Not taking turns swinging a club in golf and seeing who has the least amount of strokes, not performing a routine in a pool by yourself and then comparing a judge's score to other people performing a routine by themselves in a pool in synchronized swimming, not alternatively throwing darts at a board. Competing against another is attempting to block a shot or steal the ball in basketball, throwing a pitch by a batter or tagging someone out at home plate in baseball, a goaltender blocking a shot in soccer, etc.

And as has been made abundantly clear, you are the only one who has this interpretation. Thus it is your own subjective, editorial opinion and not shared by any objective source. I would hope it would be evident to you almost everyone who has posted has disagreed. Although you gaslight that as "groupthink".

I once heard a wise man say, when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, you are wrong. But hey, feel free to live in your own little world. If nothing else, I will give you credit for amazing stamina in sticking to an unfounded opinion that is unsupported by any objective source.

1) It should be fairly obvious at this point that democracy/the majority/mob rule doesn't always determine the optimal solution.

2) The opposition to my opinion is not supported by an objective source, either, because again, this is a discussion about a subjective topic. It is conceptual. It is okay to have a separate interpretation, the Earth will still continue to spin if we don't all agree on a common definition of something.

mmapags wrote: »

Alatariel75 wrote: »

So competing against one another for the highest score is not competing against one another?

Apparently not. Unless someone is trying to tackle you while you get your score?

Tackling is actually a penalty in some sports, you can't really get away with it in soccer, hockey, baseball, etc. But they are still sports because they are defending each other in different ways. Lawn darts, competitive fishing, and beer pong? No defense whatsoever, and not sports...

Yeah, I guess the International Olympic Committee wouldn't be considered an objective source by anyone. Strong logic there.

The Olympic Committee stopped recognizing cricket, lacrosse, and baseball as sports - so did they cease to become sports?

actually saying they stopped recognizing them as sports is a misnomer. They stopped including them...except baseball is back in for 2020....among others.

so the olympic committee stopped including them as sports is a more accurate statement

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2016/08/09/how-a-sport-becomes-an-olympic-event/#25cfbc702ce9

Right, because the Olympic Committee is not a source providing the definition of what a sport is, but rather a committee that decides what events will be included in the Olympics and then stages the Olympics.

Relser wrote: »

Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.

Relser wrote: »

Your family should not be forced to diet with you- it's no one's fault but your own if you sit there and eat an entire bag of chips or sleeve of cookies. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean your partner/kids should get punished.