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CICO is overrated in my opinion
Replies
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I'm only up to page 15, but my take on the bible topic is:
I believe in God, but i don't believe in Religion.4 -
Orthodox Jewish here. I do believe that the Bible is factual, but I also agree that it was meant to be an instruction book, not a history book. It is not always chronological. Sometimes it requires additional commentaries to understand. And there are things that I accept on faith that I'll agree seem to fly in the face of current scientific thought. I do believe that there's an explanation out there that can synthesize/harmonize between the two. It'd be pure arrogance on my part to say that because I can't think of one, one doesn't exist.13
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estherdragonbat wrote: »Orthodox Jewish here. I do believe that the Bible is factual, but I also agree that it was meant to be an instruction book, not a history book. It is not always chronological. Sometimes it requires additional commentaries to understand. And there are things that I accept on faith that I'll agree seem to fly in the face of current scientific thought. I do believe that there's an explanation out there that can synthesize/harmonize between the two. It'd be pure arrogance on my part to say that because I can't think of one, one doesn't exist.
Well said. I agree with you. I’ve always thought “if I could wrap my mind around God and all He’s done, He wouldn’t be much of a God, would He?”8 -
I was raised Christian, United Methodist specifically, and my mother was a believer to her bedrock, the kindest and warmest sort, not a rigid or overbearing type. While I think my dad was at heart a deist, he was a bit more of a free thinker.
I was a strong believer into my teens, but began to struggle with doubt. I'm fundamentally rationalist at my core, and that makes faith a viscerally hard sell.
Sometime in my late teens or early twenties, I came to a realization: Whether I believed in a deity or not, my behavior would be exactly the same. I have a very strong sense of ethics and morality (maybe an idiosyncratic one, but strong, and fairly Golden Rule oriented
). To me, my actual actions seemed at least as ethically based as those of the believers around me.
At that moment - and it really was kind of just a moment - I decided I didn't care whether there was a god, and I literally stopped worrying about it.
These days, I remain a committed agnostic. I deeply respect others' faiths, and don't argue with them about metaphysics. It's faith, not logic. I expect others to respect my beliefs, too. I grow big scary metaphorical teeth if they try to convert me. And to the extent I form judgements about people - which I try to keep to a practical minimum - I judge based on actions.
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estherdragonbat wrote: »Orthodox Jewish here. I do believe that the Bible is factual, but I also agree that it was meant to be an instruction book, not a history book. It is not always chronological. Sometimes it requires additional commentaries to understand.
Interesting thoughts. I think large parts of the Hebrew Scriptures (what we Christians call the Old Testament) are historical. I don't think they are 100% accurate (or expect them to be) -- they seem to me more in line with other ancient histories (like Herodotus and Thucydides, among others) in some ways, and to be retellings from later periods based on tradition and so on (and thus we see differences in Chronicles and Samuel/Kings, etc.). None of that ever posed a challenge of faith for me, as I was not brought up thinking that Biblical inspiration meant that books would be written in a different manner than other books and = perfectly factual in a way that matters now vs. like other historical accounts of the time.
What did pose more of a struggle for me is that I think that Biblical inspiration means that they are there for a reason and teach lessons that we should learn (although it may not be straightforward and there may be many different interpretations that are meaningful -- kind of like all the midrash, I suppose). But in some cases it's really hard to understand what a positive moral message would be, and you can see that it's been misused often throughout history to justify things that are not good.
This does not challenge my faith or my belief that the Bible is inspired, but I do think it makes interpretation something that is not as simple as some portray it (not saying that applies to anyone in this thread).2 -
I was raised Christian, United Methodist specifically, and my mother was a believer to her bedrock, the kindest and warmest sort, not a rigid or overbearing type. While I think my dad was at heart a deist, he was a bit more of a free thinker.
I was a strong believer into my teens, but began to struggle with doubt. I'm fundamentally rationalist at my core, and that makes faith a viscerally hard sell.
Sometime in my late teens or early twenties, I came to a realization: Whether I believed in a deity or not, my behavior would be exactly the same. I have a very strong sense of ethics and morality (maybe an idiosyncratic one, but strong, and fairly Golden Rule oriented ). To me, my actual actions seemed at least as ethically based as those of the believers around me.
At that moment - and it really was kind of just a moment - I decided I didn't care whether there was a god, and I literally stopped worrying about it.
These days, I remain a committed agnostic. I deeply respect others' faiths, and don't argue with them about metaphysics. It's faith, not logic. I expect others to respect my beliefs, too. I grow big scary metaphorical teeth if they try to convert me. And to the extent I form judgements about people - which I try to keep to a practical minimum - I judge based on actions.
^That's me to a T, though the timing is different.3 -
CICO is just math used to estimate how much energy you need to support your current body weight, it isn't a plan, it isn't a strategy....it isn't something that you follow....it is a tool one can use as part of a weight loss, gain or fitness strategy.
You can decide you want to gain muscle and decide to do so you are going to eat at a modest surplus....CICO applies. You can decide you want to lose weight and decide you are going to eat at a modest deficit....CICO applies. You can decide you want to maintain your weight but wish to up the amount of exercise and need to find out how much more you should eat....CICO applies.
It is just a tool. It happens though that it is a tool that is very useful for any attempt to regulate or control your body shape or weight. You can opt to not use it but if that is your choice you are making things harder than they need to be really.
Saying CICO is overrated is like saying that math is overrated. I assume what you actually mean is a specific strategy or approach to weight loss is overrated and you have just labeled that as "CICO" for whatever reason.10 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »...Saying CICO is overrated is like saying that math is overrated. I assume what you actually mean is a specific strategy or approach to weight loss is overrated and you have just labeled that as "CICO" for whatever reason.
It looks like we'll never know what OP actually meant.5 -
moosmum1972 wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »I have an almost an hour and a half to go- sooooooo let's move it along- we gotta keep talking about something.
I move that we create a debate/discussion group that's aggressively moderated against disrespectful folks, but no holds barred regarding ethical/theological belief/opinion.
I've looked into some and they're a bit sunny and Evangelically flavored. Nothing wrong with that of course but the conversation at those groups seems to come to a standstill in about 30 days with the group leader ending up talking pretty much to herself after that.
If there were an eclectic mix of Roman Catholics, Byzantine Catholics, Protestants of various traditional denominations, non-denominationals, atheists, agnostics, New Agers, Evangelicals, Charismatics, Literalists, Mormons, 7th Day, Self taught Christians with no formal affiliation, Secular Humanists, former tarot card readers that came back to walk with Christ again, etc. - with an emphasis on respect with moderation - that could be interesting if we could keep the discussions ongoing and interesting.
I haven't yet seen such a group get off the ground but for sure it's a good idea.
I'm a member of a FB group that is sort of that way.
But here goes. Hope I did this right.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/125560-meaning-of-life
oooh, shiny. i'd like to join if it's alright.
also, i spent way too long looking for this gif only to realize when i found it that it's not from the meaning of life, but from life of brian, but i'm posting it anyway.
He's not the Messiah he's a very naughty boy
SPLITTER!!!2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I was raised Christian, United Methodist specifically, and my mother was a believer to her bedrock, the kindest and warmest sort, not a rigid or overbearing type. While I think my dad was at heart a deist, he was a bit more of a free thinker.
I was a strong believer into my teens, but began to struggle with doubt. I'm fundamentally rationalist at my core, and that makes faith a viscerally hard sell.
Sometime in my late teens or early twenties, I came to a realization: Whether I believed in a deity or not, my behavior would be exactly the same. I have a very strong sense of ethics and morality (maybe an idiosyncratic one, but strong, and fairly Golden Rule oriented ). To me, my actual actions seemed at least as ethically based as those of the believers around me.
At that moment - and it really was kind of just a moment - I decided I didn't care whether there was a god, and I literally stopped worrying about it.
These days, I remain a committed agnostic. I deeply respect others' faiths, and don't argue with them about metaphysics. It's faith, not logic. I expect others to respect my beliefs, too. I grow big scary metaphorical teeth if they try to convert me. And to the extent I form judgements about people - which I try to keep to a practical minimum - I judge based on actions.
^That's me to a T, though the timing is different.
Pretty much me too, with the exception of substituting Lutheran for Methodist.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »...Saying CICO is overrated is like saying that math is overrated. I assume what you actually mean is a specific strategy or approach to weight loss is overrated and you have just labeled that as "CICO" for whatever reason.
It looks like we'll never know what OP actually meant.
Given the thread drift, it also looks like we don't really care. 7 -
It's fun to chase rabbits down holes and see where they lead.7
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ladyreva78 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »GlorianasTears wrote: »CICO is important definitely but i think it shouldn't be a priority we want to LOSE FAT not just WEIGHT because weight includes those wonderful muscles you work so hard to build (and other stuff) . Also the human body is very intelligent if you eat low calorie for a long time like i did in the past you might come to find that your body adjust to your low calorie lifestyle and you lose weight but you look unhealthy . If you want to make your body let go of fat you have to be healthy , being malnourished is not healthy or pleasant. So please promote fat loss not weight loss .
Im not trying to rain on anyones parade but i just think that we should focus on health and nutrition more than obsessing over CICO. Have a nice day
to LOSE FAT you need a calorie deficit... so CICO has to be followed...
you can eat a nutritious diet and still be fat...
*raises hand* I ate a nutritious diet and was fat... Now I eat a (mostly) nutritious diet within my calories limits and I'm losing weight. My blood work has never been better. Divorce from my liver is off the table. Blood glucose is firmly where it's supposed to be.
All thanks to following that totally overrated concept of CICO.
Pssst: I even eat chocolate every day and pizza on a weekly basis because I know it's not the what but the how much that matters for weight loss.
Amen !!7 -
I’m new to MFP and have also noticed that you are attacked when you ever bring up a different point of view . Proves that people only want to hear what their doing is the right and only way.39
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Well, because you're new, I'll explain. There are alot of "lurkers", people who don't post or comment but read the forums. Some of them are new and are liable to take certain ideas, presented with enthusiasm, by a poster and wind up wasting their time, frustrated, and give up in the end. People with experience and knowlege argue against these practices especially cleanses, low calorie diets, and the idea that if you eat "x" you can eat all you want. These are just a few. If you follow for awhile you'll see why. If you have something that is working for you that's great, but before people follow your example they need to be presented with the other side of the coin. Look at the hundreds of posts titled "I'm doing everything right, but can't lose weight". Many of them don't log, for example, or give a high burn on their exercise. There's lots to learn.15
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I’m new to MFP and have also noticed that you are attacked when you ever bring up a different point of view . Proves that people only want to hear what their doing is the right and only way.
You're not being attacked, you're being corrected because what you're saying is completely false on every level.22 -
Snowflake 954 thanks for the way you worded your response. That is how we should debate. Instead of being told you are wrong on every level.11
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I’m new to MFP and have also noticed that you are attacked when you ever bring up a different point of view . Proves that people only want to hear what their doing is the right and only way.
I'm not new to MFP, (3.5 years), current 680 day streak, and many posts. I have learnt many valuable things, through this forum and not once have I been attacked.14 -
Snowflake 954 thanks for the way you worded your response. That is how we should debate. Instead of being told you are wrong on every level.
Maybe you need to look at yourself and what you've posted and ask why you are getting that kind of response. You have posted mostly woo and ignore and deny science based facts presented to you.15
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