Coronavirus prep
Replies
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
To be honest though, isn't this pretty much what most of Europe did in in spring? An now it's coming back there hard.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together.
If a grown adult finishes a major transaction in a public restroom stall and walks right past the sink to the exit door, the opportunity to educate is long past.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
True but the person is probably keeping most of the virus to themselves rather that spreading it around.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together.
If a grown adult finishes a major transaction in a public restroom stall and walks right past the sink to the exit door, the opportunity to educate is long past.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that what that adult is doing is okay, so I'm not sure the point that is being made. If someone was posting here about how they weren't washing their hands after using the restroom, either at home or in public restrooms because it wouldn't result in the complete eradication of illness, most of us would be like "Hey, you should still wash your hands!"9 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
To be honest though, isn't this pretty much what most of Europe did in in spring? An now it's coming back there hard.
I suspect if we had done this as well, it wouldn't be coming back in Europe. Where is it coming from? Is their second wave mostly or entirely organic? I would bet not.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together.
If a grown adult finishes a major transaction in a public restroom stall and walks right past the sink to the exit door, the opportunity to educate is long past.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that what that adult is doing is okay, so I'm not sure the point that is being made. If someone was posting here about how they weren't washing their hands after using the restroom, either at home or in public restrooms because it wouldn't result in the complete eradication of illness, most of us would be like "Hey, you should still wash your hands!"
From your post above:
"The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together"
My point is if an adult doesn't already know to wash their hands we are far past the point where some PSAs in the media or a poster on a bathroom wall will change behavior.7 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
Who is the "no one" that did not want to do your extremely high level plan here? Did you tell someone with the authority to consider it? Or did you just tell a bunch of random people on the internet?
What ifs and cocktail napkin plans are just idle speculation.
9 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together.
If a grown adult finishes a major transaction in a public restroom stall and walks right past the sink to the exit door, the opportunity to educate is long past.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that what that adult is doing is okay, so I'm not sure the point that is being made. If someone was posting here about how they weren't washing their hands after using the restroom, either at home or in public restrooms because it wouldn't result in the complete eradication of illness, most of us would be like "Hey, you should still wash your hands!"
From your post above:
"The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together"
My point is if an adult doesn't already know to wash their hands we are far past the point where some PSAs in the media or a poster on a bathroom wall will change behavior.
I was talking about washing hands in the particular context of how it fits with safe mask wearing, which isn't something that most of us have heard about. Also, many people aren't aware of hand washing throughout the day (like when returning home) to help prevent the spread of diseases, outside of the context of using the bathroom.
But the point is that even if some adults aren't ever going to wash their hands after using the bathroom, that doesn't make it okay public health behavior and it doesn't mean the rest of us should throw up our hands. There are always going to be people doing things that are gross, unsafe, or unsanitary. Frankly, that's all the MORE reason I wash my hands, because I understand some people are going to fall way short of basic health precautions.7 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
To be honest though, isn't this pretty much what most of Europe did in in spring? An now it's coming back there hard.
I suspect if we had done this as well, it wouldn't be coming back in Europe. Where is it coming from? Is their second wave mostly or entirely organic? I would bet not.
Europe has pretty stringent travel restrictions since spring so most likely source is mainly organic
4 -
missysippy930 wrote: »@MikePfirrman
LOL, my daughter took off of work Wednesday, to either recover from celebrating, or, being depressed.
I agree, it could get very nasty. Already some incidences.
I, on the other hand, will be watching Hallmark Christmas movies, and not turn on the news until Wednesday morning.
My husband and I will be binging on season 5 of the sottish show The Outlander. I think that we still have about 5 more episodes before we are done. I will be enjoying the steaming hot love scenes more than what ever scenes takes place in the reality of Election Night.
I am just concerned that I will not be able to sleep too well to night. Maybe double magnesium will help.6 -
Please raise your hand if you think that any methods of any sort are going to fully eradicate COVID from the whole world and THAT is the only way it can ever be gone. Sorry to say, it will not be gone. It will never be 100% gone and we have to be smart, act accordingly, develop treatments and preventatives. Meanwhile, the economy and businesses must survive or it is all a moot point.
7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together.
If a grown adult finishes a major transaction in a public restroom stall and walks right past the sink to the exit door, the opportunity to educate is long past.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that what that adult is doing is okay, so I'm not sure the point that is being made. If someone was posting here about how they weren't washing their hands after using the restroom, either at home or in public restrooms because it wouldn't result in the complete eradication of illness, most of us would be like "Hey, you should still wash your hands!"
From your post above:
"The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together"
My point is if an adult doesn't already know to wash their hands we are far past the point where some PSAs in the media or a poster on a bathroom wall will change behavior.
I was talking about washing hands in the particular context of how it fits with safe mask wearing, which isn't something that most of us have heard about. Also, many people aren't aware of hand washing throughout the day (like when returning home) to help prevent the spread of diseases, outside of the context of using the bathroom.
But the point is that even if some adults aren't ever going to wash their hands after using the bathroom, that doesn't make it okay public health behavior and it doesn't mean the rest of us should throw up our hands. There are always going to be people doing things that are gross, unsafe, or unsanitary. Frankly, that's all the MORE reason I wash my hands, because I understand some people are going to fall way short of basic health precautions.
Just as an aside, I'm OK never seeing a buffet again in my entire life. My wife used to want to frequent casinos in Ohio to play the penny slots. And she always wanted to eat at the buffet. I'm a bit of a natural germaphobe to begin with, but when you see 60% of men not washing their hands, no matter what they do in the restroom (now I think the ratio is higher in casinos than elsewhere in the world), you really don't want to go into a casino and eat any longer or touch commonly touched utensils. Just grosses me out thinking about it every time.
I remember years ago, one time in Myrtle Beach, we went to an Italian buffet. No matter what you chose, someone scooped it out and served it to you. I think if buffets are ever to come back, that's the way they need to be.9 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
I think your definition of common sense and mine are very different. I'm not locked in my home. I go out to dinner, go to the grocery store. I went to Top Golf last week to enjoy a lovely day. We take drives, go for walks, bike ride, swim and have one couple we spend time with often. Wed and Saturdays are our nights out. We always dine outside and wear masks, even not when required. I actually wore a mask at Top Golf when the instructor was close and then took it off to hit balls. I think I actually wore it sometimes even hitting balls. It's a very small inconvenience. Trivial compared to what our first responders are doing.
The virus is not going away because everyone that has refused to wear masks and social distance. And "paper masks" are very effective at keeping others, as well as your family, safe. And if you do get it, can mean the difference between a mild case with a low viral load or an ICU unit.
Common sense is good hygiene. I see people touch the keypad at a store, who has been touched by how many people, and not sanitized. Then touch their faces to remove their mask. A long with door handles, bags, etc. How many do you think sanitize? Or think about cross contamination? That's the real problem. The solution though, wear a thin paper mask. Unless you wear a hazmat suite or a respirator and goggles, then you really aren't protected. It's nothing but a feel good measure for the masses. Even the CDC can't make up their minds.
I think you've been misled. Masks DO protect you and the people around you. This is a scientific fact, and the CDC HAS made up its mind. Anyone who tells you different has an agenda that does not include your health.
I don't understand how mask wearing makes touching a keypad or door handle worse than what you are doing btw. And I assume you don't necessarily see the person remove the mask, since they do so outside the store. I know I sanitize my hands before removing my mask, and assume others do as well.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the locker room not wash their hands after using the bathroom. A lot of people have poor hygiene. That's far more important than a mask.
Which is probably why most of the posters and public announcements I've seen in the US stress a variety of prevention measures, including washing your hands regularly. We don't have to choose between wearing a mask and washing our hands. We can (and should!) do both.
That same person that didn't wash their hands just placed a mask on their face. Which means the mask may now be contaminated.
The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together.
If a grown adult finishes a major transaction in a public restroom stall and walks right past the sink to the exit door, the opportunity to educate is long past.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that what that adult is doing is okay, so I'm not sure the point that is being made. If someone was posting here about how they weren't washing their hands after using the restroom, either at home or in public restrooms because it wouldn't result in the complete eradication of illness, most of us would be like "Hey, you should still wash your hands!"
From your post above:
"The solution is to educate people about washing their hands, not to decide that masks are worthless. Nobody is arguing for poor hand washing practices or saying that it isn't important to have safe habits working together"
My point is if an adult doesn't already know to wash their hands we are far past the point where some PSAs in the media or a poster on a bathroom wall will change behavior.
I was talking about washing hands in the particular context of how it fits with safe mask wearing, which isn't something that most of us have heard about. Also, many people aren't aware of hand washing throughout the day (like when returning home) to help prevent the spread of diseases, outside of the context of using the bathroom.
But the point is that even if some adults aren't ever going to wash their hands after using the bathroom, that doesn't make it okay public health behavior and it doesn't mean the rest of us should throw up our hands. There are always going to be people doing things that are gross, unsafe, or unsanitary. Frankly, that's all the MORE reason I wash my hands, because I understand some people are going to fall way short of basic health precautions.
Just as an aside, I'm OK never seeing a buffet again in my entire life. My wife used to want to frequent casinos in Ohio to play the penny slots. And she always wanted to eat at the buffet. I'm a bit of a natural germaphobe to begin with, but when you see 60% of men not washing their hands, no matter what they do in the restroom (now I think the ratio is higher in casinos than elsewhere in the world), you really don't want to go into a casino and eat any longer or touch commonly touched utensils. Just grosses me out thinking about it every time.
I remember years ago, one time in Myrtle Beach, we went to an Italian buffet. No matter what you chose, someone scooped it out and served it to you. I think if buffets are ever to come back, that's the way they need to be.
I'm with you, I'm not even particularly germaphobic, but the concept of the big open tubs of food held at uncertain temps for heaven knows how long . . . no thanks!
In college, I waitressed for a restaurant that had a breakfast buffet and a weekend seafood buffet. It wasn't even particularly dirty or unsafe as far as restaurants go, but I still saw enough to make it permanently unappetizing for me.5 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
To be honest though, isn't this pretty much what most of Europe did in in spring? An now it's coming back there hard.
I suspect if we had done this as well, it wouldn't be coming back in Europe. Where is it coming from? Is their second wave mostly or entirely organic? I would bet not.
Europe has pretty stringent travel restrictions since spring so most likely source is mainly organic
I was thinking the same thing. From what I've read, one cause in France and Germany seems to be in-person school, but they are committed to having in-person school (which I understand).
Maybe someone in Europe can weigh in on what they think the causes are.2 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
Who is the "no one" that did not want to do your extremely high level plan here? Did you tell someone with the authority to consider it? Or did you just tell a bunch of random people on the internet?
What ifs and cocktail napkin plans are just idle speculation.
The "no one" I'm talking about are others on this thread. Go back to Mar. / Apr.1 -
DH received an email from work tonight; someone has tested positive there.
He works at the local high school. Knew it would happen sooner or later but it still scares me. That makes 4 within local schools in the past week. We've been so fortunate up until now. Our town's population is less than 6000.
Time to move to Hermitville.12 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
Hope everyone stays safe this week. Have a feeling that this will be a very violent and scary week in the US. I plan on drinking quite a bit on Tuesday night. Hopefully, AZ will make pot legal on Tuesday -- we have a ballot initiative for up to six plants or one ounce on Tuesday's ballot. I could use some pot brownies on Tuesday.
Oh, big news too -- the wife's doc appointment went better than expected. The doc seemed pleased with her progress already on her blood work. He wants her to lose a little weight, but overall, was really impressed with how proactive we are related to exercise and diet. Her potassium was just under the "normal" reading but most of the rest of the numbers, including blood sugar, were now decent. So huge relief but we're continuing with eliminating most of our added sugars.
Unfortunately agree with the possible violence.
Did have a question. If legal pot is on the ballot Tuesday where are you going to get the pot brownies on Tuesday
? In IL it took a while for the dispensaries to get up and running.
Good luck to your wife.
Because no one has ever found a way to get a pot brownie in a state where pot wasn't legal.
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Hey folks - doing a quick clean up of this discussion.
We really hope our US members are following public health guidelines and wearing a mask when out in public.
Whether or not we should be wearing masks in public settings is not up for debate in our community during this global pandemic. If you are choosing not to wear a mask in a recommended situation you may not promote it here.
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I hope you guys are all doing well and are safe. I haven't been here for a bit.. I was Covided Out....it was on TV and basically everywhere I looked. I needed a break for a bit...
So, Australia here.. we are doing pretty OK for now, we had 3 new cases in nsw in the last 24 hours, 2 were travellers in quarantine already and one was linked to a known cluster in south-west Sydney. I say we are doing well atm but this thing is so unpredictable that a week from now it could be a whole different story.9 -
I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
The science and CDC, as the early evidence was absorbed and affected their advice, have been pretty clear that a mask reduces chances of infecting others (if I'm contagious, possibly asymptomatic) a fair bit more than it protects the mask-wearers.
So, yeah, it's not like seatbelts, in that the major effect is protecting others, or (when masks are worn widely), limiting community spread. (In a narrow set of circumstances, a seat belt may prevent my body becoming yet another dangerous moving object that could harm others inside my car in a crash. True, a mask may give me a limited amount of protection - maybe avoid getting the disease if I'm lucky, maybe get a smaller viral load so lighter case.) That's nice, but not the only point.
You keep writing about this like it's all about me, and whether I'm afraid, and how I handle my mask, and whether I sanitize after using (whatever) in public, etc. It's not all about me.
And, yeah, a thing I'm realizing, and feeling kind of stupid not to have realized sooner, is that it might make sense for me to wear masks during flu season, to limit flu spread. One of many differences, IMU, between Covid and common forms of flu is that flu's contagiousness is more nearly coincident with noticeable symptoms, and Covid tends to be asymptomatic at the start, yet still quite contagious. I think, going forward, especially that if I have sniffles or something, I *should* wear a mask if I go out during flu season, even if I think it's probably not the flu. Why wouldn't I do that? It's super easy, might help someone else.
Long before covid my doctor's office gave me a mask if I came in with a respiratory-type sickness to wear while I was in the office and they suggested I should continue wearing it in public after I left. Going forward, I'll already have masks to wear if I get a potential respiratory disease, even when we're past the pandemic, God willing.9 -
slimgirljo15 wrote: »I hope you guys are all doing well and are safe. I haven't been here for a bit.. I was Covided Out....it was on TV and basically everywhere I looked. I needed a break for a bit...
So, Australia here.. we are doing pretty OK for now, we had 3 new cases in nsw in the last 24 hours, 2 were travellers in quarantine already and one was linked to a known cluster in south-west Sydney. I say we are doing well atm but this thing is so unpredictable that a week from now it could be a whole different story.
Yesterday was great though Jo. Zero new cases right across Australia for the first time. Only the odd person in quarantine back from overseas. Nice if it'd stay that way.5 -
slimgirljo15 wrote: »I hope you guys are all doing well and are safe. I haven't been here for a bit.. I was Covided Out....it was on TV and basically everywhere I looked. I needed a break for a bit...
So, Australia here.. we are doing pretty OK for now, we had 3 new cases in nsw in the last 24 hours, 2 were travellers in quarantine already and one was linked to a known cluster in south-west Sydney. I say we are doing well atm but this thing is so unpredictable that a week from now it could be a whole different story.
Yesterday was great though Jo. Zero new cases right across Australia for the first time. Only the odd person in quarantine back from overseas. Nice if it'd stay that way.
Absolutely Sue.. fingers crossed 🤞1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
Hope everyone stays safe this week. Have a feeling that this will be a very violent and scary week in the US. I plan on drinking quite a bit on Tuesday night. Hopefully, AZ will make pot legal on Tuesday -- we have a ballot initiative for up to six plants or one ounce on Tuesday's ballot. I could use some pot brownies on Tuesday.
Oh, big news too -- the wife's doc appointment went better than expected. The doc seemed pleased with her progress already on her blood work. He wants her to lose a little weight, but overall, was really impressed with how proactive we are related to exercise and diet. Her potassium was just under the "normal" reading but most of the rest of the numbers, including blood sugar, were now decent. So huge relief but we're continuing with eliminating most of our added sugars.
Unfortunately agree with the possible violence.
Did have a question. If legal pot is on the ballot Tuesday where are you going to get the pot brownies on Tuesday? In IL it took a while for the dispensaries to get up and running.
Good luck to your wife.
Because no one has ever found a way to get a pot brownie in a state where pot wasn't legal.
It was a tongue in cheek comment. Put the smiling face at the end of the sentence to make sure people understand that.
Guess it didn't work.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
To be honest though, isn't this pretty much what most of Europe did in in spring? An now it's coming back there hard.
I suspect if we had done this as well, it wouldn't be coming back in Europe. Where is it coming from? Is their second wave mostly or entirely organic? I would bet not.
Europe has pretty stringent travel restrictions since spring so most likely source is mainly organic
I was thinking the same thing. From what I've read, one cause in France and Germany seems to be in-person school, but they are committed to having in-person school (which I understand).
Maybe someone in Europe can weigh in on what they think the causes are.
I can't say a lot for all of Europe, but in Italy, this is my take on it. Cases this summer were really low, and the economy is based on tourism. Guess what--no tourists. So there was a strong campaign to have Italians and other Europeans vacation here. People moved from north to south (my 2nd son went to Poland for a week). Younger people, especially, exploded. After Lockdown they were sick of the whole thing. The island of Sardinia had had no cases, during August they were a hotbed of COVID. People there on vacation, brought it all over the country when they went home, even though testing was done on everyone. We had a case ourselves at the beach. Everything was shutdown for 4 days because a girl had been in Sardinia and tested positive. She didn't wait 2 days for the result, but came to be with her parents at the beach. Thanks a lot--caused a mini Lockdown in the middle of August at our closed complex.
Then September arrived, schools opened, public transportation was crowded,---the rest is history. You can just see the graphs, nothing.......and then, explosion. People were lax about wearing masks when I got back to Rome in September. That has changed. My main fear is my 3 yr old grandson, who goes to nursery school. He'll bring it home to us. They live across the landing, and you can't social distance from a 3 yr old and his 1 1/2 yr old brother.20 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
To be honest though, isn't this pretty much what most of Europe did in in spring? An now it's coming back there hard.
No it wasn’t as closed down as that by any means. Additionally people didn’t comply tourism was allowed and now we are in a serious mess.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
To be honest though, isn't this pretty much what most of Europe did in in spring? An now it's coming back there hard.
I suspect if we had done this as well, it wouldn't be coming back in Europe. Where is it coming from? Is their second wave mostly or entirely organic? I would bet not.
Europe has pretty stringent travel restrictions since spring so most likely source is mainly organic
I struggle to imagine which European country you are speaking of. Travel restrictions have only been re announced in France last week. Wales closed boarders three weeks ago and I believe it was the first to do so this fall after all other countries opened last spring to tourism.6 -
IPlease raise your hand if you think that any methods of any sort are going to fully eradicate COVID from the whole world and THAT is the only way it can ever be gone. Sorry to say, it will not be gone. It will never be 100% gone and we have to be smart, act accordingly, develop treatments and preventatives. Meanwhile, the economy and businesses must survive or it is all a moot point.
I don't really see anyone talking about eradication. IMO, the biggest issue with this virus is that it is novel and thus there is currently no inherent immunity which makes it extremely communicable and can be very serious requiring critical hospital care. IMO, the biggest issue with this virus is it's ability to overwhelm critical care capabilities...this has a ripple effect in that if critical care units are full or near full, that leaves little room for the person who just had a heart attack and needs immediate surgery...or the family that was in a devastating car accident and there are no critical care beds to take care of them.
In NM, we are once again near capacity for our critical care units at 80% capacity and hitting record hospitalizations daily for about the last 3 weeks. Hospitals just across the border in El Paso are no longer taking in patients from NM because they are maxed out and are erecting tents in their parking lots. That is the biggest complication with this thing...it is very infectious and can easily overwhelm the capabilities of the health care system to treat and to treat other critical needs.15 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I started going back to the gym in July. I don't wear a mask. I use common sense and wipe everything down, like I did before. My family and I go out to eat as well. If the establishment didn't require a mask, I wouldn't wear one. The virus is not going away, and I'm going to live my life with common sense.
I hope this means that if you or your family get sick, you will not seek medical attention and just 'live it out' at home.
I'm pretty sure I had it back in February. Yes, if one of us were to get sick, we would stay home. Like I said, common sense. I don't believe in thin paper masks. I don't believe in everyone just staying home. The virus is not going away.
This is WHY it's not going away. It's frustrating that some of us haven't seen our family for months and other people are just going to the gym without masks. You can't even get a sense that "we're all in this together" because some people are acting like there is no "us" to even consider.
So, wearing masks is going to make the virus magically disappear? People should wear masks during Flu season, maybe the Flu virus will go away.
Wearing seatbelts doesn't make car accidents "magically disappear," but most people still think it's a reasonable step to take. Why are the options "make it magically vanish" or "do nothing at all"?
I thought comparing this to the flu went out of style once we passed 100,000 dead in the US. Is it coming back now?
You are comparing a think paper masks to seatbelts? Maybe I'll wear a mask to protect myself in case of an accident.
Yes, I'm comparing one protective device to another. If the accident is "I've been infected with COVID-19 and may not know it yet," it's a reasonable device to use.
A seatbelt is just a thin strip of fabric. Yet you presumably use one, because you can comprehend that in a very specific set of circumstances, a thin strip of fabric is just what you need to protect yourself and others around you.
Worse accident I had was before our seatbelt laws. I was thrown from the vehicle and got a few scratches. If I was strapped in, I would've had broken legs. But I wear seatbelts now that it is law.
So I'm confident I won't catch COVID19 because of the current status of cases around here. But I wear my mask because of the directions that have been given by the authorities.5 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
Who is the "no one" that did not want to do your extremely high level plan here? Did you tell someone with the authority to consider it? Or did you just tell a bunch of random people on the internet?
What ifs and cocktail napkin plans are just idle speculation.
The "no one" I'm talking about are others on this thread. Go back to Mar. / Apr.
Can you explain how this is a real thing to complain about? People with no authority to enact your plan disagreed with you about your plan. Why is that relevant? What did happen was going to happen no matter how many random people on the internet agreed with you. You get that, right?
Now if you are trying to invoke an "I told you so" you would have to develop your plan a lot further. You would have to discuss what level of compliance would be necessary to avoid repeating the lockdown, whether or not it would require martial law to achieve that level of compliance, the costs associated with it, how long it would take to muster or fabricate enough PPE for all the people who would need it, and all the collateral damage in lives and property it would cause. I am sure I am missing a few details but start there.
I can mention a solution to any problem but until the solution is a fully formed plan that is actually implementable and presented to the proper people then I am just saying idle things. It does not make me right if my fantasy solution is not implemented and a more real world outcome occurs.
It truly does suck that this is going the way it has. I expected it but that does not make it suck less. When forced to try and make quick decisions based on evolving data that affects so much I am not sure how often anything is handled in a way that will ever feel right. In about 10 years someone will analyze it (hindsight is grand) and tell us all the mistakes made that we currently think are right and tell us all the right things that happened that we currently think are wrong. I won't bother watching or reading it.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Re Australia question Some people have second homes. They had to stay in one state if the borders were locked.
There were some exemption for essential travellers, but going to a holiday home was not one of them.
Same for us, here in Italy, you could not go to vacation homes. People would check and report you (everyone knows which homes are vacation). Police stopped cars on the road, and you had to have permission for where you were going--work, humanitarian (helping an elderly relative), etc. This was during Lockdown last spring. We are going into another Lockdown. The numbers keep climbing. My husband's cousins are all down with COVID. Luckily we haven't seen them for over 3 weeks.
Way back in Mar., I was advocating for this here in the U.S. Most disagreed, but it has gotten out of hand here. I still think we need a total and complete shutdown for 3-4 weeks where only essential employees (healthcare and designated support) are allowed to leave. Under my vision then (and now), nobody else leaves home. Food, supplies, and medicine delivery would be done by people in full PPE and contactless (i.e. set order down at door and leave before person opens door). But nobody wanted to do that. They would rather have months or years of limited contact rather than weeks of zero contact.
To be honest though, isn't this pretty much what most of Europe did in in spring? An now it's coming back there hard.
I suspect if we had done this as well, it wouldn't be coming back in Europe. Where is it coming from? Is their second wave mostly or entirely organic? I would bet not.
Europe has pretty stringent travel restrictions since spring so most likely source is mainly organic
I struggle to imagine which European country you are speaking of. Travel restrictions have only been re announced in France last week. Wales closed boarders three weeks ago and I believe it was the first to do so this fall after all other countries opened last spring to tourism.
I believe the suggestion was that it was brought from the US, and my understanding is that most of Europe has closed borders with the US. I am aware that European countries have been open to each other and blaming each other -- I saw a funny English vs Spanish Twitter battle a month or so ago, with references to both the Armada and the history of public English tourist drunkenness in Spain.3
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