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Coronavirus prep
Replies
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spiriteagle99 wrote: »It's odd that PA has numbers that are so high. We've had a mask mandate almost since the beginning. There was a total shut down for months. Indoor dining in restaurants is closed as are gyms. Schools are mostly virtual. And yet . . .
A lot of people do resist the restrictions. Masks are worn badly, and some don't wear them at all. It seems that the tighter the restrictions, the more people rebel. Still, the number of infections is ridiculously high. The news never explains what is happening. In the beginning it was the warehouse jobs and food processing plants. Now, who knows?
I completely understand this. I feel the same way about IL (specifically, Chicago). When I go outside, pretty much everyone is wearing masks around me (this is outdoors, and has not always been the case, but has been largely the case since the new spikes and weather getting somewhat cooler). Beyond that, they've been enforcing masks inside well, and that has seemed to have buy-in from even those who were more relaxed about masks outside, since masks first started getting recommended. We had some of the earliest and strictest rules from early on (they lightened up some in the summer). It's nothing like the types of complete ignoring of masks or sneering at those who wear them reported elsewhere (here my ND is endless complaining about seeing those outdoors without them), and yet the numbers seem to be worse here no matter what.
I realize that obsessing about this is ridiculous and unhelpful and there is irresponsible behavior happening (bunch of big house parties shut down, stuff like this), but given how much most people do seem to be trying to be compliant, it makes me feel a little like it's hopeless and doesn't matter. (But at least the vaccine should help.) Most of the time I'm not this way, but I feel like things have been bad here for so long and it's not that we aren't wearing masks or are downplaying the virus or all the things that keep being said to be the one and only reason that could be.
Anyway, sorry to whine, I was mainly just hoping to say I get it!
I think what is being reported from PA, Chicago, etc is typical of the entire USA. Burn out is real. Late yesterday I was talking with a local doctor about these factors. She mentioned most cases of death she knew about first hand were actually following the "rules" and still died.
Actually the "rules" were never to keep people from getting this version of corona virus but to only slow its spread. At this point I expect 100% of the USA population has been in contact with this virus like most other ubiquitous viruses. How we respond depends on many factors mostly under our control where we are aware or not. If each exposure is a hit on our immune system then job one is to work to enhance our immune system daily.
After traveling 2000 miles this to week to pick up a car in the east coast as well as locally other than some mask usage things looked about the same as pre pandemic USA. The freeways are PACKED with cars, trucks, motorhomes and other RVs. Yesterday at Walmart the parking lot was packed out.
We have to keep in mind people posting on this forum are atypical. Most in the USA are not into health and fitness. Preexisting health conditions is the main path Covid-19 spread. While turning 70 in 60 days my eating lifestyle changes since Oct 2014 has me more healthy then when I was 40. I can still die from Covid-19. I have worked to increase my mitochondria count and their health and have Vit D levels greater than 100 ng for 5 years now and still avoid added sugar. Will that be helpful in my case remains to be seen.
The mental heath crisis concerns me as well as the financial health crisis. Some of these things will impact us for decades to come.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »It's odd that PA has numbers that are so high. We've had a mask mandate almost since the beginning. There was a total shut down for months. Indoor dining in restaurants is closed as are gyms. Schools are mostly virtual. And yet . . .
A lot of people do resist the restrictions. Masks are worn badly, and some don't wear them at all. It seems that the tighter the restrictions, the more people rebel. Still, the number of infections is ridiculously high. The news never explains what is happening. In the beginning it was the warehouse jobs and food processing plants. Now, who knows?
I completely understand this. I feel the same way about IL (specifically, Chicago). When I go outside, pretty much everyone is wearing masks around me (this is outdoors, and has not always been the case, but has been largely the case since the new spikes and weather getting somewhat cooler). Beyond that, they've been enforcing masks inside well, and that has seemed to have buy-in from even those who were more relaxed about masks outside, since masks first started getting recommended. We had some of the earliest and strictest rules from early on (they lightened up some in the summer). It's nothing like the types of complete ignoring of masks or sneering at those who wear them reported elsewhere (here my ND is endless complaining about seeing those outdoors without them), and yet the numbers seem to be worse here no matter what.
I realize that obsessing about this is ridiculous and unhelpful and there is irresponsible behavior happening (bunch of big house parties shut down, stuff like this), but given how much most people do seem to be trying to be compliant, it makes me feel a little like it's hopeless and doesn't matter. (But at least the vaccine should help.) Most of the time I'm not this way, but I feel like things have been bad here for so long and it's not that we aren't wearing masks or are downplaying the virus or all the things that keep being said to be the one and only reason that could be.
Anyway, sorry to whine, I was mainly just hoping to say I get it!
I think what is being reported from PA, Chicago, etc is typical of the entire USA. Burn out is real. Late yesterday I was talking with a local doctor about these factors. She mentioned most cases of death she knew about first hand were actually following the "rules" and still died.
Actually the "rules" were never to keep people from getting this version of corona virus but to only slow its spread. At this point I expect 100% of the USA population has been in contact with this virus like most other ubiquitous viruses. How we respond depends on many factors mostly under our control where we are aware or not. If each exposure is a hit on our immune system then job one is to work to enhance our immune system daily.
After traveling 2000 miles this to week to pick up a car in the east coast as well as locally other than some mask usage things looked about the same as pre pandemic USA. The freeways are PACKED with cars, trucks, motorhomes and other RVs. Yesterday at Walmart the parking lot was packed out.
We have to keep in mind people posting on this forum are atypical. Most in the USA are not into health and fitness. Preexisting health conditions is the main path Covid-19 spread. While turning 70 in 60 days my eating lifestyle changes since Oct 2014 has me more healthy then when I was 40. I can still die from Covid-19. I have worked to increase my mitochondria count and their health and have Vit D levels greater than 100 ng for 5 years now and still avoid added sugar. Will that be helpful in my case remains to be seen.
The mental heath crisis concerns me as well as the financial health crisis. Some of these things will impact us for decades to come.
I don't know if we can take at face value statements from sick people who claim to have followed all guidelines and still got serious, even fatal, cases.
I'm not saying that people are lying.
I'm saying that many of us have poor memories of times when we assessed risk poorly, especially there is a gap of a week or two between the risk and the consequence. We also all have slightly different assessments of what the "rules" are. I know people who think they're following the rules when they're simply obey local laws -- so I had some co-workers who considered themselves to be okay dining indoors in my state even when rates were high. Why? Because it was legal. I know people who gathered for the holidays who thought they were obeying the rules because none of them had symptoms or known contact with someone who was ill. There are people going to gyms, meeting unmasked with different-household family, or eating in technically outdoor enclosed areas who all would say they're following the "rules."
I am sure there are people who have done everything according to the best current advice and still got sick. I'm not saying that hasn't happened. But a lot of people who think they did everything right and still got sick -- I'm guessing that a good chunk of those people engaged in behaviors that we KNOW are higher risk and aren't directly related to the pressures of having to make a living or they made a mistake in trusting that someone in their inner circle was also following the same precautions that they were.14 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I also get a ton of disagrees and don't even pay attention to them. Not everyone will like everything I post.
Something a bit different... dating in the pandemic. I've been single for a very long time and I have some deal-breakers that are not exactly easy to find, especially in the places I've lived. Surprisingly, I found someone recently who checks all of those boxes and is a perfect match on paper. So it was worth getting to know her. We have chatted much more electronically, but met once so far. I had suggested a walk outside (lower risk, right). I wore a mask when we first met, and she asked if I wanted her to wear one. I said I wasn't worried about it as long as we kept moving and I pulled mine down for most of the time also. Yes, it is a bit risky, but we have both been careful otherwise and we are moving along rather than staying in the same airspace. Even if one of us is infected without symptoms, I see it as relatively low risk.
Our next meeting / date / whatever you want to call it (it's complicated because I am likely moving for work soon, so we are just calling ourselves friends for now) - is planned for Sat. We are going hiking. I had suggested hiking for our first, but she didn't want to do that because how would she know if I was a serial killer or something? So she wanted to meet and then stay in a populated area (with cell coverage) so she could text her friend that she's still alive.
Anyhow, I've convinced her I'm not a serial killer - she is very trusting, I guess. So we are going hiking on Sat. at a state park that is past where she lives. So I'll plan to pick her up and then continue on to the park with her. I'm not worried about masks outside, especially if we keep moving because the air is constantly getting replaced by different air and any viral load should be small, if any. However, I'm going to ask her to wear a mask in the car and I'll do the same while she is with me. I am sure she will be alright with that and seems like a practical safe measure to take. Some may say I'm taking too much risk and should exclusively chat electronically. I'm taking reasonable precautions even if not taking every precaution that is possible to be taken. It's a balance of sorts. If you don't like that, go ahead and disagree. If you have better ideas of what I should do differently (besides not seeing her in person at all), I'm open to those ideas. Obviously I'll have hand sanitizer as well.
I am sure that dating at this time is very difficult and stressful. I am, however, delighted for you and hope you have really found that someone special for you. A light in the midst of all the darkness surrounding us. It sounds as if you're doing just fine. Have a wonderful time.
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missysippy930 wrote: »In Minnesota, our governor announced last week that celebrations would be limited to two households if inside, three, if outside. We are currently in a blizzard. The temperature has gone from 45 F yesterday morning, to 0 F now, with wind chills well below zero. I’m guessing that not many will be celebrating outside. Will the edict be disobeyed? Probably by some, but most people get it, and are taking this very seriously.
I'm probably about 7 or 8ish hours north of you, same damn blizzard, slightly colder (-2 F or -24 F wind chill) but at least here no one has mentioned the idea of outdoor gatherings for several months.
Our whole province goes into full lockdown on the 26th. I'm in the middle of a three week vacation block anyway and I've been just as happy to stay home. I'll make dinner for my dad tomorrow, suspend cooking temporarily to go and pick him up so he won't have to take a cab, and bring him home afterwards. For those of us who live alone we are encouraged to celebrate with one other household only so we're actually in compliance.8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »It's odd that PA has numbers that are so high. We've had a mask mandate almost since the beginning. There was a total shut down for months. Indoor dining in restaurants is closed as are gyms. Schools are mostly virtual. And yet . . .
A lot of people do resist the restrictions. Masks are worn badly, and some don't wear them at all. It seems that the tighter the restrictions, the more people rebel. Still, the number of infections is ridiculously high. The news never explains what is happening. In the beginning it was the warehouse jobs and food processing plants. Now, who knows?
I completely understand this. I feel the same way about IL (specifically, Chicago). When I go outside, pretty much everyone is wearing masks around me (this is outdoors, and has not always been the case, but has been largely the case since the new spikes and weather getting somewhat cooler). Beyond that, they've been enforcing masks inside well, and that has seemed to have buy-in from even those who were more relaxed about masks outside, since masks first started getting recommended. We had some of the earliest and strictest rules from early on (they lightened up some in the summer). It's nothing like the types of complete ignoring of masks or sneering at those who wear them reported elsewhere (here my ND is endless complaining about seeing those outdoors without them), and yet the numbers seem to be worse here no matter what.
I realize that obsessing about this is ridiculous and unhelpful and there is irresponsible behavior happening (bunch of big house parties shut down, stuff like this), but given how much most people do seem to be trying to be compliant, it makes me feel a little like it's hopeless and doesn't matter. (But at least the vaccine should help.) Most of the time I'm not this way, but I feel like things have been bad here for so long and it's not that we aren't wearing masks or are downplaying the virus or all the things that keep being said to be the one and only reason that could be.
Anyway, sorry to whine, I was mainly just hoping to say I get it!
I think what is being reported from PA, Chicago, etc is typical of the entire USA. Burn out is real. Late yesterday I was talking with a local doctor about these factors. She mentioned most cases of death she knew about first hand were actually following the "rules" and still died.
Actually the "rules" were never to keep people from getting this version of corona virus but to only slow its spread. At this point I expect 100% of the USA population has been in contact with this virus like most other ubiquitous viruses. How we respond depends on many factors mostly under our control where we are aware or not. If each exposure is a hit on our immune system then job one is to work to enhance our immune system daily.
After traveling 2000 miles this to week to pick up a car in the east coast as well as locally other than some mask usage things looked about the same as pre pandemic USA. The freeways are PACKED with cars, trucks, motorhomes and other RVs. Yesterday at Walmart the parking lot was packed out.
We have to keep in mind people posting on this forum are atypical. Most in the USA are not into health and fitness. Preexisting health conditions is the main path Covid-19 spread. While turning 70 in 60 days my eating lifestyle changes since Oct 2014 has me more healthy then when I was 40. I can still die from Covid-19. I have worked to increase my mitochondria count and their health and have Vit D levels greater than 100 ng for 5 years now and still avoid added sugar. Will that be helpful in my case remains to be seen.
The mental heath crisis concerns me as well as the financial health crisis. Some of these things will impact us for decades to come.
I don't know if we can take at face value statements from sick people who claim to have followed all guidelines and still got serious, even fatal, cases.
I'm not saying that people are lying.
I'm saying that many of us have poor memories of times when we assessed risk poorly, especially there is a gap of a week or two between the risk and the consequence. We also all have slightly different assessments of what the "rules" are. I know people who think they're following the rules when they're simply obey local laws -- so I had some co-workers who considered themselves to be okay dining indoors in my state even when rates were high. Why? Because it was legal. I know people who gathered for the holidays who thought they were obeying the rules because none of them had symptoms or known contact with someone who was ill. There are people going to gyms, meeting unmasked with different-household family, or eating in technically outdoor enclosed areas who all would say they're following the "rules."
I am sure there are people who have done everything according to the best current advice and still got sick. I'm not saying that hasn't happened. But a lot of people who think they did everything right and still got sick -- I'm guessing that a good chunk of those people engaged in behaviors that we KNOW are higher risk and aren't directly related to the pressures of having to make a living or they made a mistake in trusting that someone in their inner circle was also following the same precautions that they were.
The one person I know (father of a friend on MFP) who has died was strictly isolating, but required to come in to the VA for routine medical exam by his doctor, who was sneezing and coughing “with a negative test.” Nurse was overheard saying she also had a negative test but couldn’t smell or taste. Guess what, less than a week later he had Covid. He did everything exactly as he was told and was killed by the medical profession.
Locally, the largest single category of new infections which can successfully be traced came from healthcare settings.26 -
rheddmobile wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »It's odd that PA has numbers that are so high. We've had a mask mandate almost since the beginning. There was a total shut down for months. Indoor dining in restaurants is closed as are gyms. Schools are mostly virtual. And yet . . .
A lot of people do resist the restrictions. Masks are worn badly, and some don't wear them at all. It seems that the tighter the restrictions, the more people rebel. Still, the number of infections is ridiculously high. The news never explains what is happening. In the beginning it was the warehouse jobs and food processing plants. Now, who knows?
I completely understand this. I feel the same way about IL (specifically, Chicago). When I go outside, pretty much everyone is wearing masks around me (this is outdoors, and has not always been the case, but has been largely the case since the new spikes and weather getting somewhat cooler). Beyond that, they've been enforcing masks inside well, and that has seemed to have buy-in from even those who were more relaxed about masks outside, since masks first started getting recommended. We had some of the earliest and strictest rules from early on (they lightened up some in the summer). It's nothing like the types of complete ignoring of masks or sneering at those who wear them reported elsewhere (here my ND is endless complaining about seeing those outdoors without them), and yet the numbers seem to be worse here no matter what.
I realize that obsessing about this is ridiculous and unhelpful and there is irresponsible behavior happening (bunch of big house parties shut down, stuff like this), but given how much most people do seem to be trying to be compliant, it makes me feel a little like it's hopeless and doesn't matter. (But at least the vaccine should help.) Most of the time I'm not this way, but I feel like things have been bad here for so long and it's not that we aren't wearing masks or are downplaying the virus or all the things that keep being said to be the one and only reason that could be.
Anyway, sorry to whine, I was mainly just hoping to say I get it!
I think what is being reported from PA, Chicago, etc is typical of the entire USA. Burn out is real. Late yesterday I was talking with a local doctor about these factors. She mentioned most cases of death she knew about first hand were actually following the "rules" and still died.
Actually the "rules" were never to keep people from getting this version of corona virus but to only slow its spread. At this point I expect 100% of the USA population has been in contact with this virus like most other ubiquitous viruses. How we respond depends on many factors mostly under our control where we are aware or not. If each exposure is a hit on our immune system then job one is to work to enhance our immune system daily.
After traveling 2000 miles this to week to pick up a car in the east coast as well as locally other than some mask usage things looked about the same as pre pandemic USA. The freeways are PACKED with cars, trucks, motorhomes and other RVs. Yesterday at Walmart the parking lot was packed out.
We have to keep in mind people posting on this forum are atypical. Most in the USA are not into health and fitness. Preexisting health conditions is the main path Covid-19 spread. While turning 70 in 60 days my eating lifestyle changes since Oct 2014 has me more healthy then when I was 40. I can still die from Covid-19. I have worked to increase my mitochondria count and their health and have Vit D levels greater than 100 ng for 5 years now and still avoid added sugar. Will that be helpful in my case remains to be seen.
The mental heath crisis concerns me as well as the financial health crisis. Some of these things will impact us for decades to come.
I don't know if we can take at face value statements from sick people who claim to have followed all guidelines and still got serious, even fatal, cases.
I'm not saying that people are lying.
I'm saying that many of us have poor memories of times when we assessed risk poorly, especially there is a gap of a week or two between the risk and the consequence. We also all have slightly different assessments of what the "rules" are. I know people who think they're following the rules when they're simply obey local laws -- so I had some co-workers who considered themselves to be okay dining indoors in my state even when rates were high. Why? Because it was legal. I know people who gathered for the holidays who thought they were obeying the rules because none of them had symptoms or known contact with someone who was ill. There are people going to gyms, meeting unmasked with different-household family, or eating in technically outdoor enclosed areas who all would say they're following the "rules."
I am sure there are people who have done everything according to the best current advice and still got sick. I'm not saying that hasn't happened. But a lot of people who think they did everything right and still got sick -- I'm guessing that a good chunk of those people engaged in behaviors that we KNOW are higher risk and aren't directly related to the pressures of having to make a living or they made a mistake in trusting that someone in their inner circle was also following the same precautions that they were.
The one person I know (father of a friend on MFP) who has died was strictly isolating, but required to come in to the VA for routine medical exam by his doctor, who was sneezing and coughing “with a negative test.” Nurse was overheard saying she also had a negative test but couldn’t smell or taste. Guess what, less than a week later he had Covid. He did everything exactly as he was told and was killed by the medical profession.
Locally, the largest single category of new infections which can successfully be traced came from healthcare settings.
I'm really sorry for your friend and their family. I wasn't at all meaning to place doubt on individual circumstances, I have no doubt that there are people that fall into this category. I was just questioning whether we can assume that if most people with serious cases are claiming that they avoided risky behavior that we can assume that they're accurately recalling their level of risky behavior over the last few weeks and also that they have a realistic and prudent definition of risky behavior. But I can also see how that statement can come across as victim blaming - I'm not trying to do that, I'm more trying to personally determine whether or not the average person who is avoiding risky behavior (multi-household gatherings, indoor dining, going to gyms, etc) is forming the majority of serious cases of Covid right now. Your data about healthcare transmission suggests that it isn't and that's upsetting (both on an abstract level and as someone with family members who work in health care).7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »It's odd that PA has numbers that are so high. We've had a mask mandate almost since the beginning. There was a total shut down for months. Indoor dining in restaurants is closed as are gyms. Schools are mostly virtual. And yet . . .
A lot of people do resist the restrictions. Masks are worn badly, and some don't wear them at all. It seems that the tighter the restrictions, the more people rebel. Still, the number of infections is ridiculously high. The news never explains what is happening. In the beginning it was the warehouse jobs and food processing plants. Now, who knows?
I completely understand this. I feel the same way about IL (specifically, Chicago). When I go outside, pretty much everyone is wearing masks around me (this is outdoors, and has not always been the case, but has been largely the case since the new spikes and weather getting somewhat cooler). Beyond that, they've been enforcing masks inside well, and that has seemed to have buy-in from even those who were more relaxed about masks outside, since masks first started getting recommended. We had some of the earliest and strictest rules from early on (they lightened up some in the summer). It's nothing like the types of complete ignoring of masks or sneering at those who wear them reported elsewhere (here my ND is endless complaining about seeing those outdoors without them), and yet the numbers seem to be worse here no matter what.
I realize that obsessing about this is ridiculous and unhelpful and there is irresponsible behavior happening (bunch of big house parties shut down, stuff like this), but given how much most people do seem to be trying to be compliant, it makes me feel a little like it's hopeless and doesn't matter. (But at least the vaccine should help.) Most of the time I'm not this way, but I feel like things have been bad here for so long and it's not that we aren't wearing masks or are downplaying the virus or all the things that keep being said to be the one and only reason that could be.
Anyway, sorry to whine, I was mainly just hoping to say I get it!
I think what is being reported from PA, Chicago, etc is typical of the entire USA. Burn out is real. Late yesterday I was talking with a local doctor about these factors. She mentioned most cases of death she knew about first hand were actually following the "rules" and still died.
Actually the "rules" were never to keep people from getting this version of corona virus but to only slow its spread. At this point I expect 100% of the USA population has been in contact with this virus like most other ubiquitous viruses. How we respond depends on many factors mostly under our control where we are aware or not. If each exposure is a hit on our immune system then job one is to work to enhance our immune system daily.
After traveling 2000 miles this to week to pick up a car in the east coast as well as locally other than some mask usage things looked about the same as pre pandemic USA. The freeways are PACKED with cars, trucks, motorhomes and other RVs. Yesterday at Walmart the parking lot was packed out.
We have to keep in mind people posting on this forum are atypical. Most in the USA are not into health and fitness. Preexisting health conditions is the main path Covid-19 spread. While turning 70 in 60 days my eating lifestyle changes since Oct 2014 has me more healthy then when I was 40. I can still die from Covid-19. I have worked to increase my mitochondria count and their health and have Vit D levels greater than 100 ng for 5 years now and still avoid added sugar. Will that be helpful in my case remains to be seen.
The mental heath crisis concerns me as well as the financial health crisis. Some of these things will impact us for decades to come.
I don't know if we can take at face value statements from sick people who claim to have followed all guidelines and still got serious, even fatal, cases.
I'm not saying that people are lying.
I'm saying that many of us have poor memories of times when we assessed risk poorly, especially there is a gap of a week or two between the risk and the consequence. We also all have slightly different assessments of what the "rules" are. I know people who think they're following the rules when they're simply obey local laws -- so I had some co-workers who considered themselves to be okay dining indoors in my state even when rates were high. Why? Because it was legal. I know people who gathered for the holidays who thought they were obeying the rules because none of them had symptoms or known contact with someone who was ill. There are people going to gyms, meeting unmasked with different-household family, or eating in technically outdoor enclosed areas who all would say they're following the "rules."
I am sure there are people who have done everything according to the best current advice and still got sick. I'm not saying that hasn't happened. But a lot of people who think they did everything right and still got sick -- I'm guessing that a good chunk of those people engaged in behaviors that we KNOW are higher risk and aren't directly related to the pressures of having to make a living or they made a mistake in trusting that someone in their inner circle was also following the same precautions that they were.
Agreed. My parents would say they are being very careful. But they are eating in restaurants that are legally open. They go wandering around stores and shops almost every day. They have long conversations with neighbors without masks. They are regularly babysitting their little grandsons, who are also often with their other grandparents, and playing with neighborhood kids. All these incidents are little things and are not against any restrictions. But each one opens the door to infection, they just don't see it.
And plenty of folks who have been very careful lost their resolve and did a family Thanksgiving. Christmas will do the same. It's 10 people or less and it's just family so it's "ok". January is going to be a tough month I think.
There are certainly people who are being as careful as possible, but either due to essential work or something else outside their control are forced to take on additional risk. I wonder if they also would tell someone they did everything right because they only took risks they had no choice but to take.9 -
snowflake954 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »
I too can’t understand why the US would not block all incoming flights from the UK immediately. Would it ruin a political relationship or something? If eu countries are doing so to slow down Cov19 what can be the problem with the US doing so?
Dr. Fauci was interviewed last night on, The News Hour, on PBS. This question came up. He said the vaccine will respond to the mutated forms of the virus. He said that it’s possible, that the mutated form in the UK may already be here, and that they will be checking the tests to see whether it is here already.
We have the new COVID here in Rome. A woman on a flight from England who was tested before leaving (negative result) has it. She and her SO are isolated. Everyone on the plane was tested (a few days have passed) and there are a few with the new mutant which I believe will be called "Spike" by the media. It is 60% more contagious than the COVID that we've got now. Ha! Merry Christmas! ---that's sarcastic.
I remember seeing this graph in Time a few months back: the virus mutates all the time. Eventually, I'm sure we'll have a cocktail of two or three different vaccine strains in one injection, like we do for the flu shot.
Also, I share because it's one of the best-designed charts overall I've ever seen.
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I think so much focus has gone to masks that keeping distance has fallen off the radar for many. I believe masks are helping, but it needs to be combined with distance to be effective. Plus, in cooler temps the virus is stable on surfaces for a much longer time.
It makes me sad to read about someone catching and suffering seriously, especially now when the vaccines are almost within reach.10 -
paperpudding wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Attention Australians - this video on the Coronavirus Meme thread is a Must Watch
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/45590200/#Comment_45590200
That was great, thanks!
While I was over at Coronavirus Memes, I also saw this, which so hit home:
My family and I were watching a baking show made pre-pandemic last week and watched in disgust and horror as contestants blew glitter all over their cakes. With their mouths. We never would have even thought about that a year ago...6 -
I remember, years ago at a family birthday party as a young adult, my sister let her daughter and her friends decorate the cakes. Licking fingers, touching everything, one good sneeze with visible airborne particles over the cake, etc. It ruined me forever... one incident of many for my germaphobe tendencies. Blowing out candles has made me squeamish for years after that partypaperpudding wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Attention Australians - this video on the Coronavirus Meme thread is a Must Watch
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/45590200/#Comment_45590200
That was great, thanks!
While I was over at Coronavirus Memes, I also saw this, which so hit home:
My family and I were watching a baking show made pre-pandemic last week and watched in disgust and horror as contestants blew glitter all over their cakes. With their mouths. We never would have even thought about that a year ago...
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paperpudding wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Attention Australians - this video on the Coronavirus Meme thread is a Must Watch
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/45590200/#Comment_45590200
That was great, thanks!
While I was over at Coronavirus Memes, I also saw this, which so hit home:
My family and I were watching a baking show made pre-pandemic last week and watched in disgust and horror as contestants blew glitter all over their cakes. With their mouths. We never would have even thought about that a year ago...
I know, I have cognitive dissonance every time I watch TV and people engage in normal pre-pandemic behaviors.5 -
Wondering if other people have experienced this....the pandemic has affected the themes of my nightly stress dreams.
I have always had stress dreams...they used to be school-related (can't remember my locker combination, can't find the right classroom, final exams I wasn't prepared for, etc). Then they became work-related (can't get to work, all the roads are closed, lost in the building and can't get to my office, huge projects due that I didn't complete).
Now, almost ALL of my stress dreams are being in a crowd with no masks. "Why are all these people here? Where are their masks? Wait, where's MY mask?!?"22 -
paperpudding wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Attention Australians - this video on the Coronavirus Meme thread is a Must Watch
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/45590200/#Comment_45590200
That was great, thanks!
While I was over at Coronavirus Memes, I also saw this, which so hit home:
My family and I were watching a baking show made pre-pandemic last week and watched in disgust and horror as contestants blew glitter all over their cakes. With their mouths. We never would have even thought about that a year ago...
I'm hoping this will put an end to the restaurant practice of serving a single dessert with two utensils, because somehow there is a presumption that no one ever eats a whole dessert portion.
Pre-pandemic I regularly dined out with a good friend who does not like sweets, never orders dessert, and is not someone I normally swap spit with. I almost always eat dessert. We used to laugh about the two fork thing.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I was just questioning whether we can assume that if most people with serious cases are claiming that they avoided risky behavior that we can assume that they're accurately recalling their level of risky behavior over the last few weeks and also that they have a realistic and prudent definition of risky behavior.
I'm not really sure what post you are thinking said that most people with serious cases avoided risky behavior, as I didn't see that in Gale's post (I think he was referencing the original "flatten the curve" rationale), so was wonderinga bit if you were referring to my post he quoted (which was generally about how I'm in an area that has had stricter limitations than many others, certainly does not have the kind of general rejection of the mask rules, especially indoors, that seems to be common elsewhere from what's been reported on the thread, but yet seems to be doing worse than many places). There are many factors to how widespread transmission is from place to place, after all (and it isn't always obvious). When comparing numbers at times, though, it is tempting to just throw up ones hands (I haven't and don't intend to, especially since the vaccine is already here).
I'm also uncomfortable with the idea that anyone who gets it must have been being irresponsible, but I didn't think you were saying that, although I do think there's a bit of that that creeps into the discussion from time to time IMO.5 -
Provoked by something earlier in the thread I won't quote, I'm thinking about displacement of risk.
What do I mean? Choices that make me safer, but arguably put someone else at the risk I'm avoiding.
The classic example is grocery delivery: It's contactless on my end, low worry (depending on how I feel about things other people have touched recently), probably reduces my risk, has a cost but it's not enough to be a big deal for me (fortunately comfortable but not wealthy).
When I use that service, *someone* is wandering through the store, taking the risk I'm avoiding, whether it's the person who delivers, or another contractor/employee.
I can't speak for where others live, but here the people doing those jobs are not well paid, and often don't have employer-provided health care. Many are fairly young, perhaps have young families depending on their continuing health and continuing paycheck. (My cost helps with their paycheck, but risks their health.) Could they choose other jobs? Maybe. Realistically? Not all of them.
I understand why people use these services. As a social good, it's rational/responsible to shift risk from more vulnerable people (older, immune compromised, etc.) to less vulnerable. Of course any individual can make his/her own free choices about risk and cost, contingent on that person's own circumstances. I'm not second-guessing others' choices here.
Given all of the above, though, I'd personally find it tough to claim that using grocery delivery is some kind of moral high ground, an absolute good, to protect me or my family/contacts, in some condition-free way. It's risking someone else's health and contacts, to benefit mine, because I have enough money to make that choice.
P.S. To be clear, I'm still going to grocery stores myself, just keeping it very rare, like every 3-4 weeks, despite being old and having at least one comorbidity potential (early COPD). This is not my lowest-risk grocery option, clearly. The ethics of it are probably not the main driver.16 -
Provoked by something earlier in the thread I won't quote, I'm thinking about displacement of risk.
What do I mean? Choices that make me safer, but arguably put someone else at the risk I'm avoiding.
The classic example is grocery delivery: It's contactless on my end, low worry (depending on how I feel about things other people have touched recently), probably reduces my risk, has a cost but it's not enough to be a big deal for me (fortunately comfortable but not wealthy).
When I use that service, *someone* is wandering through the store, taking the risk I'm avoiding, whether it's the person who delivers, or another contractor/employee.
I can't speak for where others live, but here the people doing those jobs are not well paid, and often don't have employer-provided health care. Many are fairly young, perhaps have young families depending on their continuing health and continuing paycheck. (My cost helps with their paycheck, but risks their health.) Could they choose other jobs? Maybe. Realistically? Not all of them.
I understand why people use these services. As a social good, it's rational/responsible to shift risk from more vulnerable people (older, immune compromised, etc.) to less vulnerable. Of course any individual can make his/her own free choices about risk and cost, contingent on that person's own circumstances. I'm not second-guessing others' choices here.
Given all of the above, though, I'd personally find it tough to claim that using grocery delivery is some kind of moral high ground, an absolute good, to protect me or my family/contacts, in some condition-free way. It's risking someone else's health and contacts, to benefit mine, because I have enough money to make that choice.
P.S. To be clear, I'm still going to grocery stores myself, just keeping it very rare, like every 3-4 weeks, despite being old and having at least one comorbidity potential (early COPD). This is not my lowest-risk grocery option, clearly. The ethics of it are probably not the main driver.
I agree with this. Also, people who are on public assistance (SNAP) have far fewer options as far as grocery delivery. And food pantries don't deliver for the most part here in NYC. There are long lines of people (sometimes socially distant sometimes not) waiting for food assistance. It's sad.8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I was just questioning whether we can assume that if most people with serious cases are claiming that they avoided risky behavior that we can assume that they're accurately recalling their level of risky behavior over the last few weeks and also that they have a realistic and prudent definition of risky behavior.
I'm not really sure what post you are thinking said that most people with serious cases avoided risky behavior, as I didn't see that in Gale's post (I think he was referencing the original "flatten the curve" rationale), so was wonderinga bit if you were referring to my post he quoted (which was generally about how I'm in an area that has had stricter limitations than many others, certainly does not have the kind of general rejection of the mask rules, especially indoors, that seems to be common elsewhere from what's been reported on the thread, but yet seems to be doing worse than many places). There are many factors to how widespread transmission is from place to place, after all (and it isn't always obvious). When comparing numbers at times, though, it is tempting to just throw up ones hands (I haven't and don't intend to, especially since the vaccine is already here).
I'm also uncomfortable with the idea that anyone who gets it must have been being irresponsible, but I didn't think you were saying that, although I do think there's a bit of that that creeps into the discussion from time to time IMO.
This (the bolded) is, IMO, a common feature of human behavior. When something bad happens to someone, it's common to search, possibly subconsciously, for reasons it can't or won't happen to us: Things they did, risks they took, characteristics they had, that aren't true of us. It's a way of psychologically keeping risk at arm's length. Some personality types are, I think, more inclined to this (or to making it explicit) than others.
I've said this here before, but I'll risk li'l ol' lady style repetion: When I was going through cancer treatment, there were people who would virtually cross-examine me about my lifestyle, habits, environmental chemical exposures, genetic background, trying to understand how such a thing could happen to poor, poor me. 🙄 Usually, at some point, their starting level of tension in the conversation would reduce, and the cross-examination would wind down. After a few repetitions of this, I came to believe that they were mentally accumulating reasons I got cancer, that wouldn't apply to them, so they couldn't possibly have it happen to them. It's like some kind of weird cognitive talisman.22 -
Provoked by something earlier in the thread I won't quote, I'm thinking about displacement of risk.
What do I mean? Choices that make me safer, but arguably put someone else at the risk I'm avoiding.
The classic example is grocery delivery: It's contactless on my end, low worry (depending on how I feel about things other people have touched recently), probably reduces my risk, has a cost but it's not enough to be a big deal for me (fortunately comfortable but not wealthy).
When I use that service, *someone* is wandering through the store, taking the risk I'm avoiding, whether it's the person who delivers, or another contractor/employee.
I can't speak for where others live, but here the people doing those jobs are not well paid, and often don't have employer-provided health care. Many are fairly young, perhaps have young families depending on their continuing health and continuing paycheck. (My cost helps with their paycheck, but risks their health.) Could they choose other jobs? Maybe. Realistically? Not all of them.
I understand why people use these services. As a social good, it's rational/responsible to shift risk from more vulnerable people (older, immune compromised, etc.) to less vulnerable. Of course any individual can make his/her own free choices about risk and cost, contingent on that person's own circumstances. I'm not second-guessing others' choices here.
Given all of the above, though, I'd personally find it tough to claim that using grocery delivery is some kind of moral high ground, an absolute good, to protect me or my family/contacts, in some condition-free way. It's risking someone else's health and contacts, to benefit mine, because I have enough money to make that choice.
P.S. To be clear, I'm still going to grocery stores myself, just keeping it very rare, like every 3-4 weeks, despite being old and having at least one comorbidity potential (early COPD). This is not my lowest-risk grocery option, clearly. The ethics of it are probably not the main driver.
I think this would make a very good debate topic.
My view leans more towards the fewer people wandering around the store the better for everyone, including the workers. I haven't been inside a store since March to protect myself and my parents. A side benefit is that I'm not an additional source of contaminants for the employees and shoppers.11 -
rheddmobile wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »It's odd that PA has numbers that are so high. We've had a mask mandate almost since the beginning. There was a total shut down for months. Indoor dining in restaurants is closed as are gyms. Schools are mostly virtual. And yet . . .
A lot of people do resist the restrictions. Masks are worn badly, and some don't wear them at all. It seems that the tighter the restrictions, the more people rebel. Still, the number of infections is ridiculously high. The news never explains what is happening. In the beginning it was the warehouse jobs and food processing plants. Now, who knows?
I completely understand this. I feel the same way about IL (specifically, Chicago). When I go outside, pretty much everyone is wearing masks around me (this is outdoors, and has not always been the case, but has been largely the case since the new spikes and weather getting somewhat cooler). Beyond that, they've been enforcing masks inside well, and that has seemed to have buy-in from even those who were more relaxed about masks outside, since masks first started getting recommended. We had some of the earliest and strictest rules from early on (they lightened up some in the summer). It's nothing like the types of complete ignoring of masks or sneering at those who wear them reported elsewhere (here my ND is endless complaining about seeing those outdoors without them), and yet the numbers seem to be worse here no matter what.
I realize that obsessing about this is ridiculous and unhelpful and there is irresponsible behavior happening (bunch of big house parties shut down, stuff like this), but given how much most people do seem to be trying to be compliant, it makes me feel a little like it's hopeless and doesn't matter. (But at least the vaccine should help.) Most of the time I'm not this way, but I feel like things have been bad here for so long and it's not that we aren't wearing masks or are downplaying the virus or all the things that keep being said to be the one and only reason that could be.
Anyway, sorry to whine, I was mainly just hoping to say I get it!
I think what is being reported from PA, Chicago, etc is typical of the entire USA. Burn out is real. Late yesterday I was talking with a local doctor about these factors. She mentioned most cases of death she knew about first hand were actually following the "rules" and still died.
Actually the "rules" were never to keep people from getting this version of corona virus but to only slow its spread. At this point I expect 100% of the USA population has been in contact with this virus like most other ubiquitous viruses. How we respond depends on many factors mostly under our control where we are aware or not. If each exposure is a hit on our immune system then job one is to work to enhance our immune system daily.
After traveling 2000 miles this to week to pick up a car in the east coast as well as locally other than some mask usage things looked about the same as pre pandemic USA. The freeways are PACKED with cars, trucks, motorhomes and other RVs. Yesterday at Walmart the parking lot was packed out.
We have to keep in mind people posting on this forum are atypical. Most in the USA are not into health and fitness. Preexisting health conditions is the main path Covid-19 spread. While turning 70 in 60 days my eating lifestyle changes since Oct 2014 has me more healthy then when I was 40. I can still die from Covid-19. I have worked to increase my mitochondria count and their health and have Vit D levels greater than 100 ng for 5 years now and still avoid added sugar. Will that be helpful in my case remains to be seen.
The mental heath crisis concerns me as well as the financial health crisis. Some of these things will impact us for decades to come.
I don't know if we can take at face value statements from sick people who claim to have followed all guidelines and still got serious, even fatal, cases.
I'm not saying that people are lying.
I'm saying that many of us have poor memories of times when we assessed risk poorly, especially there is a gap of a week or two between the risk and the consequence. We also all have slightly different assessments of what the "rules" are. I know people who think they're following the rules when they're simply obey local laws -- so I had some co-workers who considered themselves to be okay dining indoors in my state even when rates were high. Why? Because it was legal. I know people who gathered for the holidays who thought they were obeying the rules because none of them had symptoms or known contact with someone who was ill. There are people going to gyms, meeting unmasked with different-household family, or eating in technically outdoor enclosed areas who all would say they're following the "rules."
I am sure there are people who have done everything according to the best current advice and still got sick. I'm not saying that hasn't happened. But a lot of people who think they did everything right and still got sick -- I'm guessing that a good chunk of those people engaged in behaviors that we KNOW are higher risk and aren't directly related to the pressures of having to make a living or they made a mistake in trusting that someone in their inner circle was also following the same precautions that they were.
The one person I know (father of a friend on MFP) who has died was strictly isolating, but required to come in to the VA for routine medical exam by his doctor, who was sneezing and coughing “with a negative test.” Nurse was overheard saying she also had a negative test but couldn’t smell or taste. Guess what, less than a week later he had Covid. He did everything exactly as he was told and was killed by the medical profession.
Locally, the largest single category of new infections which can successfully be traced came from healthcare settings.
That's just heartbreaking. Except for medical appointments, my husband is in contact pretty much only with me and I am being as careful as possible. The medical appointments can't be done virtually, so we'll just keep being careful and trust that his doctors and nurses are doing the same. The hospital isn't letting anyone but the patient into medical appointments so that does cut down on the number of people wandering around (even though I'm still mad that I can't go with him).9
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