Coronavirus prep
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »fitlulu4150 wrote: »I've been following the COVID-19 for awhile............like a lot of you I'm sure. At first I thought, well we have more deaths from seasonal A/B strains and it just didn't seem like anything much different. After a lot of research, of which there is actually very little known about this novel coronavirus so far, I've decided after watching what happened in China, S Korea and now Italy and the US, we need to be very proactive here in containing the virus.
I think it's imperative that those of us who are healthy/young (I'm healthy but not young) do our part to stop the spread of the virus. Our oldest and most infirm among us are at great risk, so it's up to the rest of us to do what we can to mitigate their exposure. Follow the recommendations of local and federal medical personnel.
The numbers of infected are increasing daily because the testing results are finally coming back after a lack of testing kits. Until we have an accurate number of those infected I think it's best to be overly cautious.
We should all practice responsible hygiene... hand washing and such. However, it is clear that this isn't going to be contained. I've already accepted that I will get Covid-19 at some point, just like most everyone else. It is just a matter of when, not if. Personally, I am not any more concerned than about getting a cold. I am young, not healthy, but my immune system is fantastic. So I am not concerned.
It may well be a forgone conclusion that you'll get it at some point, but the whole point of extra precautions like limiting potential exposure is to slow the rate of infection, so that health care systems aren't overwhelmed and those more at risk of severe symptoms have some hope of getting treatment. It's the socially responsible thing to do.
Yes, that was the first point I made in that post.T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »fitlulu4150 wrote: »I've been following the COVID-19 for awhile............like a lot of you I'm sure. At first I thought, well we have more deaths from seasonal A/B strains and it just didn't seem like anything much different. After a lot of research, of which there is actually very little known about this novel coronavirus so far, I've decided after watching what happened in China, S Korea and now Italy and the US, we need to be very proactive here in containing the virus.
I think it's imperative that those of us who are healthy/young (I'm healthy but not young) do our part to stop the spread of the virus. Our oldest and most infirm among us are at great risk, so it's up to the rest of us to do what we can to mitigate their exposure. Follow the recommendations of local and federal medical personnel.
The numbers of infected are increasing daily because the testing results are finally coming back after a lack of testing kits. Until we have an accurate number of those infected I think it's best to be overly cautious.
We should all practice responsible hygiene... hand washing and such. However, it is clear that this isn't going to be contained. I've already accepted that I will get Covid-19 at some point, just like most everyone else. It is just a matter of when, not if. Personally, I am not any more concerned than about getting a cold. I am young, not healthy, but my immune system is fantastic. So I am not concerned.
Ah, okay, just sort of read like you weren't going to worry about any sort of social distancing etc to help reduce rate of spread.
Well, no... the only "social distancing" I intend to do is minimize high 5's and hand shaking and such. My next marathon is 3/22, half marathons on 3/29 and 4/4. I intend to go to these unless cancelled. And I am going to work, stores, laundromat, etc. just like always. I am running outside just like always. I'm still washing hands and minimizing touching people and shared surfaces, but not going to completely change my schedules for the cold.
I was with you on this until you stated not changing your schedule for "a cold", because it's not a cold. It's death for 15% of people over 80, and for 7% of people in their 70s, not to mention those who have chronic illnesses. Good on you for watching out for yourself, but please think of others as well.
[ETA: Please see my later post referencing death rates by age from WHO]
The cold has higher mortality rates for people 80+ than for people in their 20's also, I'm sure, without even looking for the statistics.
ETA: If the 80-year old wants to stay home, that is their choice just as it is mine to not change my schedule because some people are getting a new version of cold. Just because something spreads fast, kills a small percentage of those it infects (and higher percentage of older people), I am not going to become a shut-in. I wouldn't do this for the cold, influenze, or norovirus - all 3 of which spread fast and have small mortality rates (higher if older) just like Covid-19.
I DID look that up, and couldn't find any info on death rates. I think if it was 7-15%, it might be easier to find on Dr. Google...
Also, I did state I was with you on not being a shut-in--it's just when you called it "a cold" that I call you out. Sure, call it a cold if you want--a mutated cold that overwhelms hospitals and medical personnel, and kills.
Calling it a cold is a metaphor. Except for public panic, Covid-19 isn't significantly different than the common cold.
But that simply isn't true. The common cold is... common. Covid-19 is by definition a novel virus.
You are assuming it will end up having the same risk factors as a cold. And it's presence out in the world is essentially doubling everyone's risk as it is out there in addition to the regular flu, plus the actual common cold.
Granted, the majority of us have a very small risk of the common cold, the seasonal flu, or probably even the novel virus leading to a more life threatening case of pneumonia or other respiratory infection, so doubling that risk isn't a big deal. As a member of a community, I think it's my responsibility to help the vulnerable in my community mitigate their risk, obviously you don't agree and that's fine. But diminishing the increased risk to the community because it doesn't really affect you isn't necessary. And I doubt you'd find an infectious disease expert or respiratory doctor who would sign off on a novel flu virus being the same risk to vulnerable people as the common cold, though I could certainly be wrong on that.24 -
DecadeDuchess wrote: »I've been reading within this thread, that some of you bought hand sanitizer years ago that you're still using. January I just threw away some that I bought plausibly 3 years ago, their expiration dates were nearly a year ago.
The "jug" I bought is easily more than 7 years old. I prefer my hand sanitizer well-aged. I have considered getting an oak cask to store it in.
If it does not go in my mouth the only expiration date that I can think of that might concern me is on a fire extinguisher.12 -
WHO has just declared Coronavirus is now a pandemic.
4 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »I'm dumbfounded we can't test more. We have given 8K tests so far total. Italy blamed the rapid spread on the slowness of testing. S Korea is managing to test 10K a year and seems to have contained it much better.
Angela Merkel, the German Prime Minister, told their body of Congress to expect 60% to 70% of the population to get it.
I do think it seems warmer temperatures will help it lessen, but I'm not optimistic at this point. It seems that regulation and red tape (as well as mixed messaging from the top -- both parties) is getting in the way.
Just heard that now Italy is not even intubating those over 65 with comorbities. I'm connected globally with many of the top immunologists in the world (I work with science based startups quite a bit). 168 died there yesterday alone. Death rate now at 6% in Italy. Not because it should be 6%, make it clear, it's because they were overwhelmed and not prepared. And they are way more prepared than us.
When will our government agencies get it together? I'd really like to know. In WW II (not to sound like the old guy), we built factories overnight for armery/tanks/planes/ships. We can't make test kits, masks to provide even the docs and nurses or more intubation equipment? It's reached the level of absurdity it seems. I sure hope plans are in place right now, but I doubt they are. We're still putting tests through "rigorous" standards. Bottleneck nightmares.
From the rate this is spreading, we have around 3 to 4 weeks before the medical system is overwhelmed.
Early on, the US turned down the World Health Organization’s offer of test kits that 60 other countries are using, in favor of making our own. I blame our govt at the highest level dor mismanaging our nation’s early response to the virus.
16 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Been lurking in this thread for a couple of days, thought I'd drop in the latest from Ireland. At the time of writing we have around 34 confirmed cases in the Republic (South of Ireland) and there are further cases in Northern Ireland (which fall under the UK's stats).
*snipped*
Schools and universities are open as normal. There has been no overall ban on large gatherings. There was a huge unnecessary political debate between the IRFU and the Minister for Health about the cancellation of the Six Nations Ireland v Italy game, with noone initially wanting to take responsibility for the cancellation of the game. The St Patrick's parades were going to go ahead, then they weren't, then they were and now have finally been cancelled.
Panic buying seems to be a bit hit and miss, some commuter towns have absolutely no toilet roll, pasta, etc on the shelves but city centre supermarkets are pretty quiet compared to normal with full stocks of everything.
I keep a mild interest in the media around it for work purposes (I deal with international travel for our employees) but I get most of my facts and figures from this site, which deals mostly in just stats without the fear-mongering sensationalist headlines. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and keep an eye on major airlines sites such as Cathay Pacific to see what the story is with current travel restrictions.
I am not in the panic stage myself, I have some meals prepped in the chest freezer, adequate normal supplies of cleaning products and consumables, as I normally buy large packs anyway to cut down on plastic waste. I am of the opinion that it is here now, it is going to affect us all at some stage whether directly or indirectly, we can just do our best to minimise the risk to ourselves and to those around us by practicing good hygiene, sensible risk assessment and doing what we can to maximise the effectiveness of the immune system through decent sleep, healthy diet, exercise, etc.
Just heard: now we know it is bad because the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Chicago was just cancelled. The New York one, which has been held every year since 1762, so far is still happening. If they shut that one down, we know the Apocalypse is upon us.
Here in Boston, St. Patrick's Day was first celebrated March 17, 1737.
St. Patrick's Day is an official holiday in Suffolk County, and an unofficial one in the rest of the state - it is the same day as the official Evacuation Day holiday, which commemorates the day in 1776 that British troops ended their occupation of Boston.
Our parade was cancelled a few days ago.4 -
DecadeDuchess wrote: »I've been reading within this thread, that some of you bought hand sanitizer years ago that you're still using. January I just threw away some that I bought plausibly 3 years ago, their expiration dates were nearly a year ago.
The "jug" I bought is easily more than 7 years old. I prefer my hand sanitizer well-aged. I have considered getting an oak cask to store it in.
If it does not go in my mouth the only expiration date that I can think of that might concern me is on a fire extinguisher.
Just checked mine. It expired last month. Considering I have had it for 2 years and only used a couple of squirts in that time I am not going to dump it and try to get new. If I really think I need it, I might pour a little additional alcohol in it. I do have a full quart of 91% isopropyl.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Been lurking in this thread for a couple of days, thought I'd drop in the latest from Ireland. At the time of writing we have around 34 confirmed cases in the Republic (South of Ireland) and there are further cases in Northern Ireland (which fall under the UK's stats).
*snipped*
Schools and universities are open as normal. There has been no overall ban on large gatherings. There was a huge unnecessary political debate between the IRFU and the Minister for Health about the cancellation of the Six Nations Ireland v Italy game, with noone initially wanting to take responsibility for the cancellation of the game. The St Patrick's parades were going to go ahead, then they weren't, then they were and now have finally been cancelled.
Panic buying seems to be a bit hit and miss, some commuter towns have absolutely no toilet roll, pasta, etc on the shelves but city centre supermarkets are pretty quiet compared to normal with full stocks of everything.
I keep a mild interest in the media around it for work purposes (I deal with international travel for our employees) but I get most of my facts and figures from this site, which deals mostly in just stats without the fear-mongering sensationalist headlines. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and keep an eye on major airlines sites such as Cathay Pacific to see what the story is with current travel restrictions.
I am not in the panic stage myself, I have some meals prepped in the chest freezer, adequate normal supplies of cleaning products and consumables, as I normally buy large packs anyway to cut down on plastic waste. I am of the opinion that it is here now, it is going to affect us all at some stage whether directly or indirectly, we can just do our best to minimise the risk to ourselves and to those around us by practicing good hygiene, sensible risk assessment and doing what we can to maximise the effectiveness of the immune system through decent sleep, healthy diet, exercise, etc.
Just heard: now we know it is bad because the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Chicago was just cancelled. The New York one, which has been held every year since 1762, so far is still happening. If they shut that one down, we know the Apocalypse is upon us.
Here in Boston, St. Patrick's Day was first celebrated March 17, 1737.
St. Patrick's Day is an official holiday in Suffolk County, and an unofficial one in the rest of the state - it is the same day as the official Evacuation Day holiday, which commemorates the day in 1776 that British troops ended their occupation of Boston.
Our parade was cancelled a few days ago.
Fun fact: the first St. Patrick's Day parade in the world was in St. Augustine, Florida in 1601. Wouldn't think of that as a hotbed of Irish sentiment but apparently the barracks priest was Irish.4 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Been lurking in this thread for a couple of days, thought I'd drop in the latest from Ireland. At the time of writing we have around 34 confirmed cases in the Republic (South of Ireland) and there are further cases in Northern Ireland (which fall under the UK's stats).
*snipped*
Schools and universities are open as normal. There has been no overall ban on large gatherings. There was a huge unnecessary political debate between the IRFU and the Minister for Health about the cancellation of the Six Nations Ireland v Italy game, with noone initially wanting to take responsibility for the cancellation of the game. The St Patrick's parades were going to go ahead, then they weren't, then they were and now have finally been cancelled.
Panic buying seems to be a bit hit and miss, some commuter towns have absolutely no toilet roll, pasta, etc on the shelves but city centre supermarkets are pretty quiet compared to normal with full stocks of everything.
I keep a mild interest in the media around it for work purposes (I deal with international travel for our employees) but I get most of my facts and figures from this site, which deals mostly in just stats without the fear-mongering sensationalist headlines. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and keep an eye on major airlines sites such as Cathay Pacific to see what the story is with current travel restrictions.
I am not in the panic stage myself, I have some meals prepped in the chest freezer, adequate normal supplies of cleaning products and consumables, as I normally buy large packs anyway to cut down on plastic waste. I am of the opinion that it is here now, it is going to affect us all at some stage whether directly or indirectly, we can just do our best to minimise the risk to ourselves and to those around us by practicing good hygiene, sensible risk assessment and doing what we can to maximise the effectiveness of the immune system through decent sleep, healthy diet, exercise, etc.
Just heard: now we know it is bad because the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Chicago was just cancelled. The New York one, which has been held every year since 1762, so far is still happening. If they shut that one down, we know the Apocalypse is upon us.
Or, perhaps, if the New York one is not cancelled, that decision will bring the Apocalypse upon us.
(^^^ Intended as a wry, dark-humor joke. Clearly, authorities' role in managing large-attendance events is a serious consideration when it comes to the spread of the virus, and each decision is nuanced and specific. I hope they are well-advised by true experts. While I think authorities are capable of bad decisions (of course), I think it's much more common for some non-experts' "gut feelings" (mistaken for reasoning or common sense) to be less functional than the reasoning of experts who've studied and worked in a field for years to decades, and for some of those non-experts to trumpet their views, arrogantly, as more true and sensible than the eggheads'. Possible? Sure. Likely? No.)6 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »fitlulu4150 wrote: »I've been following the COVID-19 for awhile............like a lot of you I'm sure. At first I thought, well we have more deaths from seasonal A/B strains and it just didn't seem like anything much different. After a lot of research, of which there is actually very little known about this novel coronavirus so far, I've decided after watching what happened in China, S Korea and now Italy and the US, we need to be very proactive here in containing the virus.
I think it's imperative that those of us who are healthy/young (I'm healthy but not young) do our part to stop the spread of the virus. Our oldest and most infirm among us are at great risk, so it's up to the rest of us to do what we can to mitigate their exposure. Follow the recommendations of local and federal medical personnel.
The numbers of infected are increasing daily because the testing results are finally coming back after a lack of testing kits. Until we have an accurate number of those infected I think it's best to be overly cautious.
We should all practice responsible hygiene... hand washing and such. However, it is clear that this isn't going to be contained. I've already accepted that I will get Covid-19 at some point, just like most everyone else. It is just a matter of when, not if. Personally, I am not any more concerned than about getting a cold. I am young, not healthy, but my immune system is fantastic. So I am not concerned.
It may well be a forgone conclusion that you'll get it at some point, but the whole point of extra precautions like limiting potential exposure is to slow the rate of infection, so that health care systems aren't overwhelmed and those more at risk of severe symptoms have some hope of getting treatment. It's the socially responsible thing to do.
Yes, that was the first point I made in that post.T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »fitlulu4150 wrote: »I've been following the COVID-19 for awhile............like a lot of you I'm sure. At first I thought, well we have more deaths from seasonal A/B strains and it just didn't seem like anything much different. After a lot of research, of which there is actually very little known about this novel coronavirus so far, I've decided after watching what happened in China, S Korea and now Italy and the US, we need to be very proactive here in containing the virus.
I think it's imperative that those of us who are healthy/young (I'm healthy but not young) do our part to stop the spread of the virus. Our oldest and most infirm among us are at great risk, so it's up to the rest of us to do what we can to mitigate their exposure. Follow the recommendations of local and federal medical personnel.
The numbers of infected are increasing daily because the testing results are finally coming back after a lack of testing kits. Until we have an accurate number of those infected I think it's best to be overly cautious.
We should all practice responsible hygiene... hand washing and such. However, it is clear that this isn't going to be contained. I've already accepted that I will get Covid-19 at some point, just like most everyone else. It is just a matter of when, not if. Personally, I am not any more concerned than about getting a cold. I am young, not healthy, but my immune system is fantastic. So I am not concerned.
Ah, okay, just sort of read like you weren't going to worry about any sort of social distancing etc to help reduce rate of spread.
Well, no... the only "social distancing" I intend to do is minimize high 5's and hand shaking and such. My next marathon is 3/22, half marathons on 3/29 and 4/4. I intend to go to these unless cancelled. And I am going to work, stores, laundromat, etc. just like always. I am running outside just like always. I'm still washing hands and minimizing touching people and shared surfaces, but not going to completely change my schedules for the cold.
I was with you on this until you stated not changing your schedule for "a cold", because it's not a cold. It's death for 15% of people over 80, and for 7% of people in their 70s, not to mention those who have chronic illnesses. Good on you for watching out for yourself, but please think of others as well.
[ETA: Please see my later post referencing death rates by age from WHO]
The cold has higher mortality rates for people 80+ than for people in their 20's also, I'm sure, without even looking for the statistics.
ETA: If the 80-year old wants to stay home, that is their choice just as it is mine to not change my schedule because some people are getting a new version of cold. Just because something spreads fast, kills a small percentage of those it infects (and higher percentage of older people), I am not going to become a shut-in. I wouldn't do this for the cold, influenze, or norovirus - all 3 of which spread fast and have small mortality rates (higher if older) just like Covid-19.
I DID look that up, and couldn't find any info on death rates. I think if it was 7-15%, it might be easier to find on Dr. Google...
Also, I did state I was with you on not being a shut-in--it's just when you called it "a cold" that I call you out. Sure, call it a cold if you want--a mutated cold that overwhelms hospitals and medical personnel, and kills.
Calling it a cold is a metaphor. Except for public panic, Covid-19 isn't significantly different than the common cold.
But that simply isn't true. The common cold is... common. Covid-19 is by definition a novel virus.
You are assuming it will end up having the same risk factors as a cold. And it's presence out in the world is essentially doubling everyone's risk as it is out there in addition to the regular flu, plus the actual common cold.
Granted, the majority of us have a very small risk of the common cold, the seasonal flu, or probably even the novel virus leading to a more life threatening case of pneumonia or other respiratory infection, so doubling that risk isn't a big deal. As a member of a community, I think it's my responsibility to help the vulnerable in my community mitigate their risk, obviously you don't agree and that's fine. But diminishing the increased risk to the community because it doesn't really affect you isn't necessary. And I doubt you'd find an infectious disease expert or respiratory doctor who would sign off on a novel flu virus being the same risk to vulnerable people as the common cold, though I could certainly be wrong on that.
I'm not assuming anything, I am making conclusions based on what is known about the common cold and about Covid-19.I think it's my responsibility to help the vulnerable in my community mitigate their risk, obviously you don't agree and that's fine.
You came to that conclusion because I refuse to be a shut in?! I suppose if that is your definition... but I can tell you based on my observation that you people who are unwilling to leave home are the minority. So if I am the *kitten* for coming out in public, most other people are *kitten* also.1 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Been lurking in this thread for a couple of days, thought I'd drop in the latest from Ireland. At the time of writing we have around 34 confirmed cases in the Republic (South of Ireland) and there are further cases in Northern Ireland (which fall under the UK's stats).
*snipped*
Schools and universities are open as normal. There has been no overall ban on large gatherings. There was a huge unnecessary political debate between the IRFU and the Minister for Health about the cancellation of the Six Nations Ireland v Italy game, with noone initially wanting to take responsibility for the cancellation of the game. The St Patrick's parades were going to go ahead, then they weren't, then they were and now have finally been cancelled.
Panic buying seems to be a bit hit and miss, some commuter towns have absolutely no toilet roll, pasta, etc on the shelves but city centre supermarkets are pretty quiet compared to normal with full stocks of everything.
I keep a mild interest in the media around it for work purposes (I deal with international travel for our employees) but I get most of my facts and figures from this site, which deals mostly in just stats without the fear-mongering sensationalist headlines. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and keep an eye on major airlines sites such as Cathay Pacific to see what the story is with current travel restrictions.
I am not in the panic stage myself, I have some meals prepped in the chest freezer, adequate normal supplies of cleaning products and consumables, as I normally buy large packs anyway to cut down on plastic waste. I am of the opinion that it is here now, it is going to affect us all at some stage whether directly or indirectly, we can just do our best to minimise the risk to ourselves and to those around us by practicing good hygiene, sensible risk assessment and doing what we can to maximise the effectiveness of the immune system through decent sleep, healthy diet, exercise, etc.
Just heard: now we know it is bad because the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Chicago was just cancelled. The New York one, which has been held every year since 1762, so far is still happening. If they shut that one down, we know the Apocalypse is upon us.
Or, perhaps, if the New York one is not cancelled, that decision will bring the Apocalypse upon us.
(^^^ Intended as a wry, dark-humor joke. Clearly, authorities' role in managing large-attendance events is a serious consideration when it comes to the spread of the virus, and each decision is nuanced and specific. I hope they are well-advised by true experts. While I think authorities are capable of bad decisions (of course), I think it's much more common for some non-experts' "gut feelings" (mistaken for reasoning or common sense) to be less functional than the reasoning of experts who've studied and worked in a field for years to decades, and for some of those non-experts to trumpet their views, arrogantly, as more true and sensible than the eggheads'. Possible? Sure. Likely? No.)
No matter what decision they make it will be judged in hindsight like many of the other decisions have been. It is always easy to know what the right choice is/was if you know the outcome. It might always seem like erring on the side of caution is prudent but if we all did that we would be permanently paralyzed because there is no safe. How many people in lock down areas will die in their homes alone because they were not in public when they had a medical emergency like a heart attack or stroke?5 -
Hey folks - please remember this discussion is intended to be a place where members in our community can share what we are doing to prepare for the pandemic, how its impacting ourselves and those around us, etc..
I absolutely understand this a big topic of conversation and folks are going to want to be discussing it. Personally I have enjoyed observing the discussion, hearing from members with different points of views, in different parts of the world having a reasonable and respectful discussion. I am not finding this say on, news comments discussions.
Please remember, the discussion is not in debate, feel free to create a debate version, but this is in general, so let's please keep it friendly, respectful and avoid turning this isn't a debate or argument.
And wash your hands.26 -
edit because Alex slipped that in and we cross-posted and now my little joke seems disrespectful. Not my intent, at all.10
-
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Been lurking in this thread for a couple of days, thought I'd drop in the latest from Ireland. At the time of writing we have around 34 confirmed cases in the Republic (South of Ireland) and there are further cases in Northern Ireland (which fall under the UK's stats).
*snipped*
Schools and universities are open as normal. There has been no overall ban on large gatherings. There was a huge unnecessary political debate between the IRFU and the Minister for Health about the cancellation of the Six Nations Ireland v Italy game, with noone initially wanting to take responsibility for the cancellation of the game. The St Patrick's parades were going to go ahead, then they weren't, then they were and now have finally been cancelled.
Panic buying seems to be a bit hit and miss, some commuter towns have absolutely no toilet roll, pasta, etc on the shelves but city centre supermarkets are pretty quiet compared to normal with full stocks of everything.
I keep a mild interest in the media around it for work purposes (I deal with international travel for our employees) but I get most of my facts and figures from this site, which deals mostly in just stats without the fear-mongering sensationalist headlines. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and keep an eye on major airlines sites such as Cathay Pacific to see what the story is with current travel restrictions.
I am not in the panic stage myself, I have some meals prepped in the chest freezer, adequate normal supplies of cleaning products and consumables, as I normally buy large packs anyway to cut down on plastic waste. I am of the opinion that it is here now, it is going to affect us all at some stage whether directly or indirectly, we can just do our best to minimise the risk to ourselves and to those around us by practicing good hygiene, sensible risk assessment and doing what we can to maximise the effectiveness of the immune system through decent sleep, healthy diet, exercise, etc.
Just heard: now we know it is bad because the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Chicago was just cancelled. The New York one, which has been held every year since 1762, so far is still happening. If they shut that one down, we know the Apocalypse is upon us.
Or, perhaps, if the New York one is not cancelled, that decision will bring the Apocalypse upon us.
(^^^ Intended as a wry, dark-humor joke. Clearly, authorities' role in managing large-attendance events is a serious consideration when it comes to the spread of the virus, and each decision is nuanced and specific. I hope they are well-advised by true experts. While I think authorities are capable of bad decisions (of course), I think it's much more common for some non-experts' "gut feelings" (mistaken for reasoning or common sense) to be less functional than the reasoning of experts who've studied and worked in a field for years to decades, and for some of those non-experts to trumpet their views, arrogantly, as more true and sensible than the eggheads'. Possible? Sure. Likely? No.)
No matter what decision they make it will be judged in hindsight like many of the other decisions have been. It is always easy to know what the right choice is/was if you know the outcome. It might always seem like erring on the side of caution is prudent but if we all did that we would be permanently paralyzed because there is no safe. How many people in lock down areas will die in their homes alone because they were not in public when they had a medical emergency like a heart attack or stroke?
Owning my disagree. I think that avoiding massive crowds during a known and named pandemic is not excessively cautious.
And wherever they get the funds from, if no one comes because of fear of crowds, it will have been a waste of money.
My opinion is obviously to cancel big and crowded events.13 -
CupcakeCrusoe wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Been lurking in this thread for a couple of days, thought I'd drop in the latest from Ireland. At the time of writing we have around 34 confirmed cases in the Republic (South of Ireland) and there are further cases in Northern Ireland (which fall under the UK's stats).
*snipped*
Schools and universities are open as normal. There has been no overall ban on large gatherings. There was a huge unnecessary political debate between the IRFU and the Minister for Health about the cancellation of the Six Nations Ireland v Italy game, with noone initially wanting to take responsibility for the cancellation of the game. The St Patrick's parades were going to go ahead, then they weren't, then they were and now have finally been cancelled.
Panic buying seems to be a bit hit and miss, some commuter towns have absolutely no toilet roll, pasta, etc on the shelves but city centre supermarkets are pretty quiet compared to normal with full stocks of everything.
I keep a mild interest in the media around it for work purposes (I deal with international travel for our employees) but I get most of my facts and figures from this site, which deals mostly in just stats without the fear-mongering sensationalist headlines. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and keep an eye on major airlines sites such as Cathay Pacific to see what the story is with current travel restrictions.
I am not in the panic stage myself, I have some meals prepped in the chest freezer, adequate normal supplies of cleaning products and consumables, as I normally buy large packs anyway to cut down on plastic waste. I am of the opinion that it is here now, it is going to affect us all at some stage whether directly or indirectly, we can just do our best to minimise the risk to ourselves and to those around us by practicing good hygiene, sensible risk assessment and doing what we can to maximise the effectiveness of the immune system through decent sleep, healthy diet, exercise, etc.
Just heard: now we know it is bad because the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Chicago was just cancelled. The New York one, which has been held every year since 1762, so far is still happening. If they shut that one down, we know the Apocalypse is upon us.
Or, perhaps, if the New York one is not cancelled, that decision will bring the Apocalypse upon us.
(^^^ Intended as a wry, dark-humor joke. Clearly, authorities' role in managing large-attendance events is a serious consideration when it comes to the spread of the virus, and each decision is nuanced and specific. I hope they are well-advised by true experts. While I think authorities are capable of bad decisions (of course), I think it's much more common for some non-experts' "gut feelings" (mistaken for reasoning or common sense) to be less functional than the reasoning of experts who've studied and worked in a field for years to decades, and for some of those non-experts to trumpet their views, arrogantly, as more true and sensible than the eggheads'. Possible? Sure. Likely? No.)
No matter what decision they make it will be judged in hindsight like many of the other decisions have been. It is always easy to know what the right choice is/was if you know the outcome. It might always seem like erring on the side of caution is prudent but if we all did that we would be permanently paralyzed because there is no safe. How many people in lock down areas will die in their homes alone because they were not in public when they had a medical emergency like a heart attack or stroke?
Owning my disagree. I think that avoiding massive crowds during a known and named pandemic is not excessively cautious.
And wherever they get the funds from, if no one comes because of fear of crowds, it will have been a waste of money.
My opinion is obviously to cancel big and crowded events.
The governor of Washington has mandated this as of an hour and a half ago.
Gatherings larger than 250.5 -
Hey folks - please remember this discussion is intended to be a place where members in our community can share what we are doing to prepare for the pandemic, how its impacting ourselves and those around us, etc..
I absolutely understand this a big topic of conversation and folks are going to want to be discussing it. Personally I have enjoyed observing the discussion, hearing from members with different points of views, in different parts of the world having a reasonable and respectful discussion. I am not finding this say on, news comments discussions.
Please remember, the discussion is not in debate, feel free to create a debate version, but this is in general, so let's please keep it friendly, respectful and avoid turning this isn't a debate or argument.
And wash your hands.
I LOVE and APPRECIATE you Alex, Betty and ALL of the super fabulous Mfp staff so much!
Mfp has absolutely, positively, unequivocally changed my entire life (and the lives of untold thousands/maybe millions of other people as well) for the total better and mere words simply can't describe/express how much I LOVE this site so much!
Thank you for this admonition and again, MUCH love to ALL that you and the wonderful Mfp staff for taking the time, love/care and professionalism daily--to keep this site a beautiful place to hang out. Y'all rock, period.
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Love and HUGS to you ALL again }}}} 8 -
CupcakeCrusoe wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Been lurking in this thread for a couple of days, thought I'd drop in the latest from Ireland. At the time of writing we have around 34 confirmed cases in the Republic (South of Ireland) and there are further cases in Northern Ireland (which fall under the UK's stats).
*snipped*
Schools and universities are open as normal. There has been no overall ban on large gatherings. There was a huge unnecessary political debate between the IRFU and the Minister for Health about the cancellation of the Six Nations Ireland v Italy game, with noone initially wanting to take responsibility for the cancellation of the game. The St Patrick's parades were going to go ahead, then they weren't, then they were and now have finally been cancelled.
Panic buying seems to be a bit hit and miss, some commuter towns have absolutely no toilet roll, pasta, etc on the shelves but city centre supermarkets are pretty quiet compared to normal with full stocks of everything.
I keep a mild interest in the media around it for work purposes (I deal with international travel for our employees) but I get most of my facts and figures from this site, which deals mostly in just stats without the fear-mongering sensationalist headlines. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and keep an eye on major airlines sites such as Cathay Pacific to see what the story is with current travel restrictions.
I am not in the panic stage myself, I have some meals prepped in the chest freezer, adequate normal supplies of cleaning products and consumables, as I normally buy large packs anyway to cut down on plastic waste. I am of the opinion that it is here now, it is going to affect us all at some stage whether directly or indirectly, we can just do our best to minimise the risk to ourselves and to those around us by practicing good hygiene, sensible risk assessment and doing what we can to maximise the effectiveness of the immune system through decent sleep, healthy diet, exercise, etc.
Just heard: now we know it is bad because the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Chicago was just cancelled. The New York one, which has been held every year since 1762, so far is still happening. If they shut that one down, we know the Apocalypse is upon us.
Or, perhaps, if the New York one is not cancelled, that decision will bring the Apocalypse upon us.
(^^^ Intended as a wry, dark-humor joke. Clearly, authorities' role in managing large-attendance events is a serious consideration when it comes to the spread of the virus, and each decision is nuanced and specific. I hope they are well-advised by true experts. While I think authorities are capable of bad decisions (of course), I think it's much more common for some non-experts' "gut feelings" (mistaken for reasoning or common sense) to be less functional than the reasoning of experts who've studied and worked in a field for years to decades, and for some of those non-experts to trumpet their views, arrogantly, as more true and sensible than the eggheads'. Possible? Sure. Likely? No.)
No matter what decision they make it will be judged in hindsight like many of the other decisions have been. It is always easy to know what the right choice is/was if you know the outcome. It might always seem like erring on the side of caution is prudent but if we all did that we would be permanently paralyzed because there is no safe. How many people in lock down areas will die in their homes alone because they were not in public when they had a medical emergency like a heart attack or stroke?
Owning my disagree. I think that avoiding massive crowds during a known and named pandemic is not excessively cautious.
And wherever they get the funds from, if no one comes because of fear of crowds, it will have been a waste of money.
My opinion is obviously to cancel big and crowded events.
I have no experience with NY but isn't living there and visiting there basically signing up to be in crowds on a regular basis? Also, I would be more worried in a confined space with limited ventilation.
I won't return the disagree. I haven't actually used that function yet (unless it was hit by accident) and also because you are stating a reasonable opinion. You can disagree with my opinion that it is not an easy choice if you like.3 -
https://cnbc.com/2020/03/11/coronavirus-latest-updates.html
I am starting to think about our supply of food for the cats, dogs and horses as well if the supply chain is impacted. We now have food for ourselves to some degree. Due to college classes being morphed over to on-line we got more food since the daughter will be eating at home more so we made a run to Walmart again and now am up to 150 cans of tuna in olive oil with a lot of other canned items like pickled boiled eggs. We are finding our local WM well stocked at 1 am in the morning. Those of us 60+ really need to be careful. Planes for the past few months has carried COVID-19 to all the airports of the world I expect.
Yes panicking is dumb as well as blowing this risk off as just the risk of a bad cold.6 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »fitlulu4150 wrote: »I've been following the COVID-19 for awhile............like a lot of you I'm sure. At first I thought, well we have more deaths from seasonal A/B strains and it just didn't seem like anything much different. After a lot of research, of which there is actually very little known about this novel coronavirus so far, I've decided after watching what happened in China, S Korea and now Italy and the US, we need to be very proactive here in containing the virus.
I think it's imperative that those of us who are healthy/young (I'm healthy but not young) do our part to stop the spread of the virus. Our oldest and most infirm among us are at great risk, so it's up to the rest of us to do what we can to mitigate their exposure. Follow the recommendations of local and federal medical personnel.
The numbers of infected are increasing daily because the testing results are finally coming back after a lack of testing kits. Until we have an accurate number of those infected I think it's best to be overly cautious.
We should all practice responsible hygiene... hand washing and such. However, it is clear that this isn't going to be contained. I've already accepted that I will get Covid-19 at some point, just like most everyone else. It is just a matter of when, not if. Personally, I am not any more concerned than about getting a cold. I am young, not healthy, but my immune system is fantastic. So I am not concerned.
It may well be a forgone conclusion that you'll get it at some point, but the whole point of extra precautions like limiting potential exposure is to slow the rate of infection, so that health care systems aren't overwhelmed and those more at risk of severe symptoms have some hope of getting treatment. It's the socially responsible thing to do.
Yes, that was the first point I made in that post.T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »fitlulu4150 wrote: »I've been following the COVID-19 for awhile............like a lot of you I'm sure. At first I thought, well we have more deaths from seasonal A/B strains and it just didn't seem like anything much different. After a lot of research, of which there is actually very little known about this novel coronavirus so far, I've decided after watching what happened in China, S Korea and now Italy and the US, we need to be very proactive here in containing the virus.
I think it's imperative that those of us who are healthy/young (I'm healthy but not young) do our part to stop the spread of the virus. Our oldest and most infirm among us are at great risk, so it's up to the rest of us to do what we can to mitigate their exposure. Follow the recommendations of local and federal medical personnel.
The numbers of infected are increasing daily because the testing results are finally coming back after a lack of testing kits. Until we have an accurate number of those infected I think it's best to be overly cautious.
We should all practice responsible hygiene... hand washing and such. However, it is clear that this isn't going to be contained. I've already accepted that I will get Covid-19 at some point, just like most everyone else. It is just a matter of when, not if. Personally, I am not any more concerned than about getting a cold. I am young, not healthy, but my immune system is fantastic. So I am not concerned.
Ah, okay, just sort of read like you weren't going to worry about any sort of social distancing etc to help reduce rate of spread.
Well, no... the only "social distancing" I intend to do is minimize high 5's and hand shaking and such. My next marathon is 3/22, half marathons on 3/29 and 4/4. I intend to go to these unless cancelled. And I am going to work, stores, laundromat, etc. just like always. I am running outside just like always. I'm still washing hands and minimizing touching people and shared surfaces, but not going to completely change my schedules for the cold.
I was with you on this until you stated not changing your schedule for "a cold", because it's not a cold. It's death for 15% of people over 80, and for 7% of people in their 70s, not to mention those who have chronic illnesses. Good on you for watching out for yourself, but please think of others as well.
[ETA: Please see my later post referencing death rates by age from WHO]
The cold has higher mortality rates for people 80+ than for people in their 20's also, I'm sure, without even looking for the statistics.
ETA: If the 80-year old wants to stay home, that is their choice just as it is mine to not change my schedule because some people are getting a new version of cold. Just because something spreads fast, kills a small percentage of those it infects (and higher percentage of older people), I am not going to become a shut-in. I wouldn't do this for the cold, influenze, or norovirus - all 3 of which spread fast and have small mortality rates (higher if older) just like Covid-19.
I DID look that up, and couldn't find any info on death rates. I think if it was 7-15%, it might be easier to find on Dr. Google...
Also, I did state I was with you on not being a shut-in--it's just when you called it "a cold" that I call you out. Sure, call it a cold if you want--a mutated cold that overwhelms hospitals and medical personnel, and kills.
Calling it a cold is a metaphor. Except for public panic, Covid-19 isn't significantly different than the common cold.
But that simply isn't true. The common cold is... common. Covid-19 is by definition a novel virus.
You are assuming it will end up having the same risk factors as a cold. And it's presence out in the world is essentially doubling everyone's risk as it is out there in addition to the regular flu, plus the actual common cold.
Granted, the majority of us have a very small risk of the common cold, the seasonal flu, or probably even the novel virus leading to a more life threatening case of pneumonia or other respiratory infection, so doubling that risk isn't a big deal. As a member of a community, I think it's my responsibility to help the vulnerable in my community mitigate their risk, obviously you don't agree and that's fine. But diminishing the increased risk to the community because it doesn't really affect you isn't necessary. And I doubt you'd find an infectious disease expert or respiratory doctor who would sign off on a novel flu virus being the same risk to vulnerable people as the common cold, though I could certainly be wrong on that.
I'm not assuming anything, I am making conclusions based on what is known about the common cold and about Covid-19.I think it's my responsibility to help the vulnerable in my community mitigate their risk, obviously you don't agree and that's fine.
You came to that conclusion because I refuse to be a shut in?! I suppose if that is your definition... but I can tell you based on my observation that you people who are unwilling to leave home are the minority. So if I am the *kitten* for coming out in public, most other people are *kitten* also.
Legit question because maybe I'm missing something, but can you point me to "what is known"? Because folks in the field don't seem to know it, unless I am clearly misreading something. Not being a medical pro myself, this is quite possible, and I'd like to learn more if I can.
There is a huge difference between avoiding crowds and being a shut-in. Regardless, my issue was only how it sounds to me like you are downplaying the overall risk because the risk to you personally is in your opinion negligible. I have no doubt that most other people are looking at it the same way, that's why I'm concerned. Anyway, I don't think it's your responsibility to be a shut-in, I apologize if what I typed came out that way.
ETA: and now I see we've been warned while I was replying, and I hope this wasn't seen as belaboring an argument. I would honestly like to be pointed to resources that assert that covid-19 is no worse than the common cold, as that would ease my mind a bit!7 -
kshama2001 wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Been lurking in this thread for a couple of days, thought I'd drop in the latest from Ireland. At the time of writing we have around 34 confirmed cases in the Republic (South of Ireland) and there are further cases in Northern Ireland (which fall under the UK's stats).
*snipped*
Schools and universities are open as normal. There has been no overall ban on large gatherings. There was a huge unnecessary political debate between the IRFU and the Minister for Health about the cancellation of the Six Nations Ireland v Italy game, with noone initially wanting to take responsibility for the cancellation of the game. The St Patrick's parades were going to go ahead, then they weren't, then they were and now have finally been cancelled.
Panic buying seems to be a bit hit and miss, some commuter towns have absolutely no toilet roll, pasta, etc on the shelves but city centre supermarkets are pretty quiet compared to normal with full stocks of everything.
I keep a mild interest in the media around it for work purposes (I deal with international travel for our employees) but I get most of my facts and figures from this site, which deals mostly in just stats without the fear-mongering sensationalist headlines. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and keep an eye on major airlines sites such as Cathay Pacific to see what the story is with current travel restrictions.
I am not in the panic stage myself, I have some meals prepped in the chest freezer, adequate normal supplies of cleaning products and consumables, as I normally buy large packs anyway to cut down on plastic waste. I am of the opinion that it is here now, it is going to affect us all at some stage whether directly or indirectly, we can just do our best to minimise the risk to ourselves and to those around us by practicing good hygiene, sensible risk assessment and doing what we can to maximise the effectiveness of the immune system through decent sleep, healthy diet, exercise, etc.
Just heard: now we know it is bad because the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Chicago was just cancelled. The New York one, which has been held every year since 1762, so far is still happening. If they shut that one down, we know the Apocalypse is upon us.
Here in Boston, St. Patrick's Day was first celebrated March 17, 1737.
St. Patrick's Day is an official holiday in Suffolk County, and an unofficial one in the rest of the state - it is the same day as the official Evacuation Day holiday, which commemorates the day in 1776 that British troops ended their occupation of Boston.
Our parade was cancelled a few days ago.
We were joking about how Boston and Ireland's parades were canceled and we were holding off.
It was pretty clear yesterday we would cancel it.
Yay, we can still dye the river.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwG2K-__2GA
Our primary this year is 3/17, and I normally am against voting early for a primary, but I think I'll go ahead and vote tomorrow.3 -
cmriverside wrote: »CupcakeCrusoe wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Been lurking in this thread for a couple of days, thought I'd drop in the latest from Ireland. At the time of writing we have around 34 confirmed cases in the Republic (South of Ireland) and there are further cases in Northern Ireland (which fall under the UK's stats).
*snipped*
Schools and universities are open as normal. There has been no overall ban on large gatherings. There was a huge unnecessary political debate between the IRFU and the Minister for Health about the cancellation of the Six Nations Ireland v Italy game, with noone initially wanting to take responsibility for the cancellation of the game. The St Patrick's parades were going to go ahead, then they weren't, then they were and now have finally been cancelled.
Panic buying seems to be a bit hit and miss, some commuter towns have absolutely no toilet roll, pasta, etc on the shelves but city centre supermarkets are pretty quiet compared to normal with full stocks of everything.
I keep a mild interest in the media around it for work purposes (I deal with international travel for our employees) but I get most of my facts and figures from this site, which deals mostly in just stats without the fear-mongering sensationalist headlines. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and keep an eye on major airlines sites such as Cathay Pacific to see what the story is with current travel restrictions.
I am not in the panic stage myself, I have some meals prepped in the chest freezer, adequate normal supplies of cleaning products and consumables, as I normally buy large packs anyway to cut down on plastic waste. I am of the opinion that it is here now, it is going to affect us all at some stage whether directly or indirectly, we can just do our best to minimise the risk to ourselves and to those around us by practicing good hygiene, sensible risk assessment and doing what we can to maximise the effectiveness of the immune system through decent sleep, healthy diet, exercise, etc.
Just heard: now we know it is bad because the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Chicago was just cancelled. The New York one, which has been held every year since 1762, so far is still happening. If they shut that one down, we know the Apocalypse is upon us.
Or, perhaps, if the New York one is not cancelled, that decision will bring the Apocalypse upon us.
(^^^ Intended as a wry, dark-humor joke. Clearly, authorities' role in managing large-attendance events is a serious consideration when it comes to the spread of the virus, and each decision is nuanced and specific. I hope they are well-advised by true experts. While I think authorities are capable of bad decisions (of course), I think it's much more common for some non-experts' "gut feelings" (mistaken for reasoning or common sense) to be less functional than the reasoning of experts who've studied and worked in a field for years to decades, and for some of those non-experts to trumpet their views, arrogantly, as more true and sensible than the eggheads'. Possible? Sure. Likely? No.)
No matter what decision they make it will be judged in hindsight like many of the other decisions have been. It is always easy to know what the right choice is/was if you know the outcome. It might always seem like erring on the side of caution is prudent but if we all did that we would be permanently paralyzed because there is no safe. How many people in lock down areas will die in their homes alone because they were not in public when they had a medical emergency like a heart attack or stroke?
Owning my disagree. I think that avoiding massive crowds during a known and named pandemic is not excessively cautious.
And wherever they get the funds from, if no one comes because of fear of crowds, it will have been a waste of money.
My opinion is obviously to cancel big and crowded events.
The governor of Washington has mandated this as of an hour and a half ago.
Gatherings larger than 250.
Why 250? Is there a reason to believe that 251 will spread the virus more? That smacks of doing something to be seen doing something.9 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »I'm dumbfounded we can't test more. We have given 8K tests so far total. Italy blamed the rapid spread on the slowness of testing. S Korea is managing to test 10K a year and seems to have contained it much better.
Angela Merkel, the German Prime Minister, told their body of Congress to expect 60% to 70% of the population to get it.
I do think it seems warmer temperatures will help it lessen, but I'm not optimistic at this point. It seems that regulation and red tape (as well as mixed messaging from the top -- both parties) is getting in the way.
Just heard that now Italy is not even intubating those over 65 with comorbities. I'm connected globally with many of the top immunologists in the world (I work with science based startups quite a bit). 168 died there yesterday alone. Death rate now at 6% in Italy. Not because it should be 6%, make it clear, it's because they were overwhelmed and not prepared. And they are way more prepared than us.
When will our government agencies get it together? I'd really like to know. In WW II (not to sound like the old guy), we built factories overnight for armery/tanks/planes/ships. We can't make test kits, masks to provide even the docs and nurses or more intubation equipment? It's reached the level of absurdity it seems. I sure hope plans are in place right now, but I doubt they are. We're still putting tests through "rigorous" standards. Bottleneck nightmares.
From the rate this is spreading, we have around 3 to 4 weeks before the medical system is overwhelmed.
Early on, the US turned down the World Health Organization’s offer of test kits that 60 other countries are using, in favor of making our own. I blame our govt at the highest level dor mismanaging our nation’s early response to the virus.
IL started testing on its own (and made a deal with insurers so they are free to those who want a test), but still seems to be short of tests (as is the US in general). 2 days ago they said they'd tested 268 and 30-some were outstanding and 8 positive came in yesterday. I assume they would be testing more if they had the tests0 -
Switzerland banned gatherings of more than 1000 people a week ago. We're still stuffed like sardines in the commuter trains.
We're 10th in the ranking of case numbers. We're *only* had 3 deaths so far, but that probably was luck more than anything else.
There's talk of the army setting up the emergency hospitals (which are in protected underground locations and are meant to be used in times of war to keep the sick and injured safe).6 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Been lurking in this thread for a couple of days, thought I'd drop in the latest from Ireland. At the time of writing we have around 34 confirmed cases in the Republic (South of Ireland) and there are further cases in Northern Ireland (which fall under the UK's stats).
*snipped*
Schools and universities are open as normal. There has been no overall ban on large gatherings. There was a huge unnecessary political debate between the IRFU and the Minister for Health about the cancellation of the Six Nations Ireland v Italy game, with noone initially wanting to take responsibility for the cancellation of the game. The St Patrick's parades were going to go ahead, then they weren't, then they were and now have finally been cancelled.
Panic buying seems to be a bit hit and miss, some commuter towns have absolutely no toilet roll, pasta, etc on the shelves but city centre supermarkets are pretty quiet compared to normal with full stocks of everything.
I keep a mild interest in the media around it for work purposes (I deal with international travel for our employees) but I get most of my facts and figures from this site, which deals mostly in just stats without the fear-mongering sensationalist headlines. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and keep an eye on major airlines sites such as Cathay Pacific to see what the story is with current travel restrictions.
I am not in the panic stage myself, I have some meals prepped in the chest freezer, adequate normal supplies of cleaning products and consumables, as I normally buy large packs anyway to cut down on plastic waste. I am of the opinion that it is here now, it is going to affect us all at some stage whether directly or indirectly, we can just do our best to minimise the risk to ourselves and to those around us by practicing good hygiene, sensible risk assessment and doing what we can to maximise the effectiveness of the immune system through decent sleep, healthy diet, exercise, etc.
Just heard: now we know it is bad because the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Chicago was just cancelled. The New York one, which has been held every year since 1762, so far is still happening. If they shut that one down, we know the Apocalypse is upon us.
Or, perhaps, if the New York one is not cancelled, that decision will bring the Apocalypse upon us.
(^^^ Intended as a wry, dark-humor joke. Clearly, authorities' role in managing large-attendance events is a serious consideration when it comes to the spread of the virus, and each decision is nuanced and specific. I hope they are well-advised by true experts. While I think authorities are capable of bad decisions (of course), I think it's much more common for some non-experts' "gut feelings" (mistaken for reasoning or common sense) to be less functional than the reasoning of experts who've studied and worked in a field for years to decades, and for some of those non-experts to trumpet their views, arrogantly, as more true and sensible than the eggheads'. Possible? Sure. Likely? No.)
No matter what decision they make it will be judged in hindsight like many of the other decisions have been. It is always easy to know what the right choice is/was if you know the outcome. It might always seem like erring on the side of caution is prudent but if we all did that we would be permanently paralyzed because there is no safe. How many people in lock down areas will die in their homes alone because they were not in public when they had a medical emergency like a heart attack or stroke?
Although I don't think people should completely lock themselves in their houses (unless mandated or officially encouraged), canceling large events and celebrations is common sense if we are to contain this. This isn't about personal risk - nobody is safe anywhere, it's about slowing down the spread and flattening the curve. It isn't just about the virus itself, either. When you get an outbreak that continues to tax the healthcare system, even those who have a medical emergency in public may not get adequate care.19 -
cmriverside wrote: »CupcakeCrusoe wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Been lurking in this thread for a couple of days, thought I'd drop in the latest from Ireland. At the time of writing we have around 34 confirmed cases in the Republic (South of Ireland) and there are further cases in Northern Ireland (which fall under the UK's stats).
*snipped*
Schools and universities are open as normal. There has been no overall ban on large gatherings. There was a huge unnecessary political debate between the IRFU and the Minister for Health about the cancellation of the Six Nations Ireland v Italy game, with noone initially wanting to take responsibility for the cancellation of the game. The St Patrick's parades were going to go ahead, then they weren't, then they were and now have finally been cancelled.
Panic buying seems to be a bit hit and miss, some commuter towns have absolutely no toilet roll, pasta, etc on the shelves but city centre supermarkets are pretty quiet compared to normal with full stocks of everything.
I keep a mild interest in the media around it for work purposes (I deal with international travel for our employees) but I get most of my facts and figures from this site, which deals mostly in just stats without the fear-mongering sensationalist headlines. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and keep an eye on major airlines sites such as Cathay Pacific to see what the story is with current travel restrictions.
I am not in the panic stage myself, I have some meals prepped in the chest freezer, adequate normal supplies of cleaning products and consumables, as I normally buy large packs anyway to cut down on plastic waste. I am of the opinion that it is here now, it is going to affect us all at some stage whether directly or indirectly, we can just do our best to minimise the risk to ourselves and to those around us by practicing good hygiene, sensible risk assessment and doing what we can to maximise the effectiveness of the immune system through decent sleep, healthy diet, exercise, etc.
Just heard: now we know it is bad because the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Chicago was just cancelled. The New York one, which has been held every year since 1762, so far is still happening. If they shut that one down, we know the Apocalypse is upon us.
Or, perhaps, if the New York one is not cancelled, that decision will bring the Apocalypse upon us.
(^^^ Intended as a wry, dark-humor joke. Clearly, authorities' role in managing large-attendance events is a serious consideration when it comes to the spread of the virus, and each decision is nuanced and specific. I hope they are well-advised by true experts. While I think authorities are capable of bad decisions (of course), I think it's much more common for some non-experts' "gut feelings" (mistaken for reasoning or common sense) to be less functional than the reasoning of experts who've studied and worked in a field for years to decades, and for some of those non-experts to trumpet their views, arrogantly, as more true and sensible than the eggheads'. Possible? Sure. Likely? No.)
No matter what decision they make it will be judged in hindsight like many of the other decisions have been. It is always easy to know what the right choice is/was if you know the outcome. It might always seem like erring on the side of caution is prudent but if we all did that we would be permanently paralyzed because there is no safe. How many people in lock down areas will die in their homes alone because they were not in public when they had a medical emergency like a heart attack or stroke?
Owning my disagree. I think that avoiding massive crowds during a known and named pandemic is not excessively cautious.
And wherever they get the funds from, if no one comes because of fear of crowds, it will have been a waste of money.
My opinion is obviously to cancel big and crowded events.
The governor of Washington has mandated this as of an hour and a half ago.
Gatherings larger than 250.
Why 250? Is there a reason to believe that 251 will spread the virus more? That smacks of doing something to be seen doing something.
I know. Or 249.
Had to pick some number though, right?
There has been one religious gathering where it spread...and professional baseball is about to get up and running. Right now it's only a ban through March. They probably want to see if it slows the number of new cases.
This is new territory. Not like they have a blueprint for how to treat this virus.10 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »fitlulu4150 wrote: »I've been following the COVID-19 for awhile............like a lot of you I'm sure. At first I thought, well we have more deaths from seasonal A/B strains and it just didn't seem like anything much different. After a lot of research, of which there is actually very little known about this novel coronavirus so far, I've decided after watching what happened in China, S Korea and now Italy and the US, we need to be very proactive here in containing the virus.
I think it's imperative that those of us who are healthy/young (I'm healthy but not young) do our part to stop the spread of the virus. Our oldest and most infirm among us are at great risk, so it's up to the rest of us to do what we can to mitigate their exposure. Follow the recommendations of local and federal medical personnel.
The numbers of infected are increasing daily because the testing results are finally coming back after a lack of testing kits. Until we have an accurate number of those infected I think it's best to be overly cautious.
We should all practice responsible hygiene... hand washing and such. However, it is clear that this isn't going to be contained. I've already accepted that I will get Covid-19 at some point, just like most everyone else. It is just a matter of when, not if. Personally, I am not any more concerned than about getting a cold. I am young, not healthy, but my immune system is fantastic. So I am not concerned.
It may well be a forgone conclusion that you'll get it at some point, but the whole point of extra precautions like limiting potential exposure is to slow the rate of infection, so that health care systems aren't overwhelmed and those more at risk of severe symptoms have some hope of getting treatment. It's the socially responsible thing to do.
Yes, that was the first point I made in that post.T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »fitlulu4150 wrote: »I've been following the COVID-19 for awhile............like a lot of you I'm sure. At first I thought, well we have more deaths from seasonal A/B strains and it just didn't seem like anything much different. After a lot of research, of which there is actually very little known about this novel coronavirus so far, I've decided after watching what happened in China, S Korea and now Italy and the US, we need to be very proactive here in containing the virus.
I think it's imperative that those of us who are healthy/young (I'm healthy but not young) do our part to stop the spread of the virus. Our oldest and most infirm among us are at great risk, so it's up to the rest of us to do what we can to mitigate their exposure. Follow the recommendations of local and federal medical personnel.
The numbers of infected are increasing daily because the testing results are finally coming back after a lack of testing kits. Until we have an accurate number of those infected I think it's best to be overly cautious.
We should all practice responsible hygiene... hand washing and such. However, it is clear that this isn't going to be contained. I've already accepted that I will get Covid-19 at some point, just like most everyone else. It is just a matter of when, not if. Personally, I am not any more concerned than about getting a cold. I am young, not healthy, but my immune system is fantastic. So I am not concerned.
Ah, okay, just sort of read like you weren't going to worry about any sort of social distancing etc to help reduce rate of spread.
Well, no... the only "social distancing" I intend to do is minimize high 5's and hand shaking and such. My next marathon is 3/22, half marathons on 3/29 and 4/4. I intend to go to these unless cancelled. And I am going to work, stores, laundromat, etc. just like always. I am running outside just like always. I'm still washing hands and minimizing touching people and shared surfaces, but not going to completely change my schedules for the cold.
I was with you on this until you stated not changing your schedule for "a cold", because it's not a cold. It's death for 15% of people over 80, and for 7% of people in their 70s, not to mention those who have chronic illnesses. Good on you for watching out for yourself, but please think of others as well.
[ETA: Please see my later post referencing death rates by age from WHO]
The cold has higher mortality rates for people 80+ than for people in their 20's also, I'm sure, without even looking for the statistics.
ETA: If the 80-year old wants to stay home, that is their choice just as it is mine to not change my schedule because some people are getting a new version of cold. Just because something spreads fast, kills a small percentage of those it infects (and higher percentage of older people), I am not going to become a shut-in. I wouldn't do this for the cold, influenze, or norovirus - all 3 of which spread fast and have small mortality rates (higher if older) just like Covid-19.
I DID look that up, and couldn't find any info on death rates. I think if it was 7-15%, it might be easier to find on Dr. Google...
Also, I did state I was with you on not being a shut-in--it's just when you called it "a cold" that I call you out. Sure, call it a cold if you want--a mutated cold that overwhelms hospitals and medical personnel, and kills.
Calling it a cold is a metaphor. Except for public panic, Covid-19 isn't significantly different than the common cold.
But that simply isn't true. The common cold is... common. Covid-19 is by definition a novel virus.
You are assuming it will end up having the same risk factors as a cold. And it's presence out in the world is essentially doubling everyone's risk as it is out there in addition to the regular flu, plus the actual common cold.
Granted, the majority of us have a very small risk of the common cold, the seasonal flu, or probably even the novel virus leading to a more life threatening case of pneumonia or other respiratory infection, so doubling that risk isn't a big deal. As a member of a community, I think it's my responsibility to help the vulnerable in my community mitigate their risk, obviously you don't agree and that's fine. But diminishing the increased risk to the community because it doesn't really affect you isn't necessary. And I doubt you'd find an infectious disease expert or respiratory doctor who would sign off on a novel flu virus being the same risk to vulnerable people as the common cold, though I could certainly be wrong on that.
I'm not assuming anything, I am making conclusions based on what is known about the common cold and about Covid-19.I think it's my responsibility to help the vulnerable in my community mitigate their risk, obviously you don't agree and that's fine.
You came to that conclusion because I refuse to be a shut in?! I suppose if that is your definition... but I can tell you based on my observation that you people who are unwilling to leave home are the minority. So if I am the *kitten* for coming out in public, most other people are *kitten* also.
Legit question because maybe I'm missing something, but can you point me to "what is known"? Because folks in the field don't seem to know it, unless I am clearly misreading something. Not being a medical pro myself, this is quite possible.
There is a huge difference between avoiding crowds and being a shut-in. Regardless, my issue was only how you are downplaying the overall risk because the risk to you personally is in your opinion negligible. I have no doubt that most other people are looking at it the same way, that's why I'm concerned. Anyway, I don't think it's your responsibility to be a shut-in, I apologize if what I typed came out that way.
If you look up-thread, someone posted mortality rates at 0.2% for most of us younger people. There was a news report I was looking at just yesterday about an estimate that 50%-70% of us will eventually get it. A majority someday have it and almost everyone recovers just fine.... sounds like the common cold.
As said before, I will continue hand washing just like before. The only thing I am changing is less human contact in the way of high-5's at races, and hand shaking. I refuse to stay at home indefinitely, as previously explained.5 -
lightenup2016 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »fitlulu4150 wrote: »I've been following the COVID-19 for awhile............like a lot of you I'm sure. At first I thought, well we have more deaths from seasonal A/B strains and it just didn't seem like anything much different. After a lot of research, of which there is actually very little known about this novel coronavirus so far, I've decided after watching what happened in China, S Korea and now Italy and the US, we need to be very proactive here in containing the virus.
I think it's imperative that those of us who are healthy/young (I'm healthy but not young) do our part to stop the spread of the virus. Our oldest and most infirm among us are at great risk, so it's up to the rest of us to do what we can to mitigate their exposure. Follow the recommendations of local and federal medical personnel.
The numbers of infected are increasing daily because the testing results are finally coming back after a lack of testing kits. Until we have an accurate number of those infected I think it's best to be overly cautious.
We should all practice responsible hygiene... hand washing and such. However, it is clear that this isn't going to be contained. I've already accepted that I will get Covid-19 at some point, just like most everyone else. It is just a matter of when, not if. Personally, I am not any more concerned than about getting a cold. I am young, not healthy, but my immune system is fantastic. So I am not concerned.
It may well be a forgone conclusion that you'll get it at some point, but the whole point of extra precautions like limiting potential exposure is to slow the rate of infection, so that health care systems aren't overwhelmed and those more at risk of severe symptoms have some hope of getting treatment. It's the socially responsible thing to do.
Yes, that was the first point I made in that post.T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »fitlulu4150 wrote: »I've been following the COVID-19 for awhile............like a lot of you I'm sure. At first I thought, well we have more deaths from seasonal A/B strains and it just didn't seem like anything much different. After a lot of research, of which there is actually very little known about this novel coronavirus so far, I've decided after watching what happened in China, S Korea and now Italy and the US, we need to be very proactive here in containing the virus.
I think it's imperative that those of us who are healthy/young (I'm healthy but not young) do our part to stop the spread of the virus. Our oldest and most infirm among us are at great risk, so it's up to the rest of us to do what we can to mitigate their exposure. Follow the recommendations of local and federal medical personnel.
The numbers of infected are increasing daily because the testing results are finally coming back after a lack of testing kits. Until we have an accurate number of those infected I think it's best to be overly cautious.
We should all practice responsible hygiene... hand washing and such. However, it is clear that this isn't going to be contained. I've already accepted that I will get Covid-19 at some point, just like most everyone else. It is just a matter of when, not if. Personally, I am not any more concerned than about getting a cold. I am young, not healthy, but my immune system is fantastic. So I am not concerned.
Ah, okay, just sort of read like you weren't going to worry about any sort of social distancing etc to help reduce rate of spread.
Well, no... the only "social distancing" I intend to do is minimize high 5's and hand shaking and such. My next marathon is 3/22, half marathons on 3/29 and 4/4. I intend to go to these unless cancelled. And I am going to work, stores, laundromat, etc. just like always. I am running outside just like always. I'm still washing hands and minimizing touching people and shared surfaces, but not going to completely change my schedules for the cold.
I was with you on this until you stated not changing your schedule for "a cold", because it's not a cold. It's death for 15% of people over 80, and for 7% of people in their 70s, not to mention those who have chronic illnesses. Good on you for watching out for yourself, but please think of others as well.
[ETA: Please see my later post referencing death rates by age from WHO]
The cold has higher mortality rates for people 80+ than for people in their 20's also, I'm sure, without even looking for the statistics.
ETA: If the 80-year old wants to stay home, that is their choice just as it is mine to not change my schedule because some people are getting a new version of cold. Just because something spreads fast, kills a small percentage of those it infects (and higher percentage of older people), I am not going to become a shut-in. I wouldn't do this for the cold, influenze, or norovirus - all 3 of which spread fast and have small mortality rates (higher if older) just like Covid-19.
FYI the mortality rate for diabetics of any age is 7.3%.
You didn't post a source for that statistic, and I couldn't find an answer quickly online, but...would you not agree that coronavirus would increase their risk further?
Sorry for not being clear. That mortality is the reported mortality rate from China for diabetic patients with Coronavirus of all ages. It’s on the same article which was posted above mine under “comorbidites.” So, if you are a diabetic and get this, you have about a one in fourteen chance of death. Diabetes is the second largest single factor in comorbity following heart disease. That to me is an unacceptably high risk.
I was responding to a diabetic and I am one myself. If you are a diabetic you should be taking special precautions because you are in a high risk category.
If this disease is similar to flu, having your diabetes well controlled makes little difference, because the reason for the comorbity has to do with the way a healthy body manipulates glucose stores in order to fight off bacteria and viruses. Diabetics don’t do that in the same way, which makes them more vulnerable to many illnesses.8 -
I would like to remind younger folks that think they'll do just fine with the virus, that if left to run like a house on fire it may morph into something stronger. It' prudent to try and slow it down so it's managable. Northern Italy has seen younger people hit along with the older. I sure hope this thread can keep going without a lock, because I'll be very interested to see everyone's opinions in a couple of weeks or so--I'll bet that they'll change.22
-
ladyreva78 wrote: »Switzerland banned gatherings of more than 1000 people a week ago. We're still stuffed like sardines in the commuter trains.
We're 10th in the ranking of case numbers. We're *only* had 3 deaths so far, but that probably was luck more than anything else.
There's talk of the army setting up the emergency hospitals (which are in protected underground locations and are meant to be used in times of war to keep the sick and injured safe).
The mayor of New York City is catching a lot of flack from late night comics for his suggestion to avoid crowded subway cars...because who would CHOOSE that?7 -
rheddmobile wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »fitlulu4150 wrote: »I've been following the COVID-19 for awhile............like a lot of you I'm sure. At first I thought, well we have more deaths from seasonal A/B strains and it just didn't seem like anything much different. After a lot of research, of which there is actually very little known about this novel coronavirus so far, I've decided after watching what happened in China, S Korea and now Italy and the US, we need to be very proactive here in containing the virus.
I think it's imperative that those of us who are healthy/young (I'm healthy but not young) do our part to stop the spread of the virus. Our oldest and most infirm among us are at great risk, so it's up to the rest of us to do what we can to mitigate their exposure. Follow the recommendations of local and federal medical personnel.
The numbers of infected are increasing daily because the testing results are finally coming back after a lack of testing kits. Until we have an accurate number of those infected I think it's best to be overly cautious.
We should all practice responsible hygiene... hand washing and such. However, it is clear that this isn't going to be contained. I've already accepted that I will get Covid-19 at some point, just like most everyone else. It is just a matter of when, not if. Personally, I am not any more concerned than about getting a cold. I am young, not healthy, but my immune system is fantastic. So I am not concerned.
It may well be a forgone conclusion that you'll get it at some point, but the whole point of extra precautions like limiting potential exposure is to slow the rate of infection, so that health care systems aren't overwhelmed and those more at risk of severe symptoms have some hope of getting treatment. It's the socially responsible thing to do.
Yes, that was the first point I made in that post.T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »fitlulu4150 wrote: »I've been following the COVID-19 for awhile............like a lot of you I'm sure. At first I thought, well we have more deaths from seasonal A/B strains and it just didn't seem like anything much different. After a lot of research, of which there is actually very little known about this novel coronavirus so far, I've decided after watching what happened in China, S Korea and now Italy and the US, we need to be very proactive here in containing the virus.
I think it's imperative that those of us who are healthy/young (I'm healthy but not young) do our part to stop the spread of the virus. Our oldest and most infirm among us are at great risk, so it's up to the rest of us to do what we can to mitigate their exposure. Follow the recommendations of local and federal medical personnel.
The numbers of infected are increasing daily because the testing results are finally coming back after a lack of testing kits. Until we have an accurate number of those infected I think it's best to be overly cautious.
We should all practice responsible hygiene... hand washing and such. However, it is clear that this isn't going to be contained. I've already accepted that I will get Covid-19 at some point, just like most everyone else. It is just a matter of when, not if. Personally, I am not any more concerned than about getting a cold. I am young, not healthy, but my immune system is fantastic. So I am not concerned.
Ah, okay, just sort of read like you weren't going to worry about any sort of social distancing etc to help reduce rate of spread.
Well, no... the only "social distancing" I intend to do is minimize high 5's and hand shaking and such. My next marathon is 3/22, half marathons on 3/29 and 4/4. I intend to go to these unless cancelled. And I am going to work, stores, laundromat, etc. just like always. I am running outside just like always. I'm still washing hands and minimizing touching people and shared surfaces, but not going to completely change my schedules for the cold.
I was with you on this until you stated not changing your schedule for "a cold", because it's not a cold. It's death for 15% of people over 80, and for 7% of people in their 70s, not to mention those who have chronic illnesses. Good on you for watching out for yourself, but please think of others as well.
[ETA: Please see my later post referencing death rates by age from WHO]
The cold has higher mortality rates for people 80+ than for people in their 20's also, I'm sure, without even looking for the statistics.
ETA: If the 80-year old wants to stay home, that is their choice just as it is mine to not change my schedule because some people are getting a new version of cold. Just because something spreads fast, kills a small percentage of those it infects (and higher percentage of older people), I am not going to become a shut-in. I wouldn't do this for the cold, influenze, or norovirus - all 3 of which spread fast and have small mortality rates (higher if older) just like Covid-19.
FYI the mortality rate for diabetics of any age is 7.3%.
You didn't post a source for that statistic, and I couldn't find an answer quickly online, but...would you not agree that coronavirus would increase their risk further?
Sorry for not being clear. That mortality is the reported mortality rate from China for diabetic patients with Coronavirus of all ages. It’s on the same article which was posted above mine under “comorbidites.” So, if you are a diabetic and get this, you have about a one in fourteen chance of death. Diabetes is the second largest single factor in comorbity following heart disease. That to me is an unacceptably high risk.
I was responding to a diabetic and I am one myself. If you are a diabetic you should be taking special precautions because you are in a high risk category.
If this disease is similar to flu, having your diabetes well controlled makes little difference, because the reason for the comorbity has to do with the way a healthy body manipulates glucose stores in order to fight off bacteria and viruses. Diabetics don’t do that in the same way, which makes them more vulnerable to many illnesses.
Ah, thank you for the clarification! 😊0 -
I'm south of Boston, MA. My Walmart was completely stocked last week when I started the thread. This was the TP aisle today (just a few 4-packs of Charmin and one store brand 4-pack):
Oh, and there are now pallets of bottled water in the middle aisle where they put seasonal items.5
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