Coronavirus prep
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »Congrats on snagging some toilet paper.
What's the big deal with the toilet paper purchases?? I haven't been able to figure it out.
Me neither, but there still isn't any where I live. Still as best as I can tell, stores will be able to get some in late May.
Plenty where I live although amount one can purchase is limited.
Last I bought any was more than a month ago. The limit then was 4 packages, but could be any size package. Since then, I have seen the limit decreased to 2 and the sign said 1 package limit when I was there on Sat. But there is none available anyway, so not sure why they bother to change the limit unless it is just so customers are used to seeing a 1 each limit when it is available again.
I bought some on Thursday, and I went after 6 pm. The shelves weren't full, but there was plenty available of both 12 roll, 9 roll, and 6 roll sizes (this grocery store doesn't have the mega sizes even normally, and I may have had some 18, I didn't look that carefully as I was walking and wasn't going to carry anything huge). You were limited to 2 packages, which seemed reasonable to me.
The last time I'd bought any at a grocery store was the weekend of March 14, and again while the supply was down it was available (this other time was at a WF). I have heard reports that during the first part of the stay at home (3/20 is when it was announced) and a few days leading up to it that many local grocery stores were out of TP or running out first thing in the morning, but based on my Nextdoor it has been available at my grocery store and some others pretty consistently since then.
Even when it was hard to find in the grocery store I checked on it at my closest 7-11 and one other and they both had supplies. My guess is that it's been harder to find in the biggest supermarkets and bulk buy type places like Costco and Target than some other kinds of places.
The only place I haven't checked here is Wal-Mart. Otherwise, 1 grocery store (small independent store) and Dollar General here are still out; 3 grocery stores, CVS, and Walgreens in nearby city are still out.0 -
missysippy930 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »I think people take out their thoughts on the wrong people.. which is unfortunate.
In times like that people often hear bad news like that and are instantly overcome by the problems they have in their own lives, debt, cost of kids, insurance, etc.. it often leaves people thinking that the burden is solely put on them only and not anyone else in a higher position.
The fear and anger and sudden-ness of the news doesnt leave much room for stopping and wondering if higher ups are also going to have to deal with the same thing.
People also often think that because they make more money they would have it easier, but honestly, people often live on the edge of or outside their means.. and as upper management, Its often deemed inappropriate for them to discuss their pay, their Bill's, their home life with the people they are managing.. I know some do it, but it can often back fire on them also..
So were blind to their struggles and consumed by the problem in front of us, that we criticize them for what's happening and are even more harsh behind their backs..
I'm guilty of it too sometimes.. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with that.
I'm mostly frustrated right now because my proposal has most employees missing the total of a pay check spread across the year, which sucks...but the alternative is just canning people. Do you want a job but you'll miss a paycheck over a year or have no job, no insurance, etc? But apparently that doesn't translate...I can only do one or the other. Hopefully it will all become clear for my peeps over the weekend. I'm quite literally trying to find a way not to have to fire you for something that's not your fault...
I’m curious. Isn’t laying off, a better term? What are the grounds for firing?
Back in 2008, we had to take a 20% pay cut, and a cut back of hours, and some people were laid off. Many people did. Through no fault of our own, because of mismanagement by businesses. Time will tell, but universal health care may become critical during this crisis. Affordable health care is a joke for most people in the US. A friend that has been furloughed during this, will have to pay just under $1600/month for Cobra starting in May. Not many people can afford that.
Sure...whatever makes someone feel good. These aren't things I'm saying to my employees, this is in my head to computer screen..to me there is no difference between "fired" "laid off" "terminated", etc. These are just semantics...bottom line is people are without jobs. I was "laid off" in 2008 with the financial crisis...I personally didn't give a *kitten* what anyone called it. I'm not in HR, I'm in accounting...HR might lay down a little sugar, but it's still all the same *kitten* thing....you're done. I would rather furlough hours throughout the year than terminate positions which was my entire point...wanna job with a little less money or no job? Also, if we furlough they can keep their health care benefits, which is pretty important. IDK about the importance of universal HC after this...I've always thought it important, but politics...I'm not sure much will actually change with this.
ETA: who knows...maybe HR will come out with some new termination term like "corona relief"...does that really change anything?
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The term used means nothing it all means the same thing- No way to pay bills next month a lot of job hunting if your savings get too low settling in a bad job just to not go under. I had 1 good boss let me know they were closing told us all to start job hunting.They stayed open until the last 2 employee were left they had a job lined up for them both. I managed to get the next job without loosing my savings deeply grateful to them forever. Sad part is now all these years later their a nonessential Buisness so sure their taking a big hit.
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I have a question for the Europeans - or anybody who follows Europe closely: do you know why Belgium has such a high death rate? As a percentage of population, the death rate in Belgium is the highest in the world (504 per million people). Is it a function of their health care system? Density? Did they not shut down when the other countries did? There was a lot on the news about Italy and Spain a few weeks ago, but nothing about Belgium.1
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spiriteagle99 wrote: »I have a question for the Europeans - or anybody who follows Europe closely: do you know why Belgium has such a high death rate? As a percentage of population, the death rate in Belgium is the highest in the world (504 per million people). Is it a function of their health care system? Density? Did they not shut down when the other countries did? There was a lot on the news about Italy and Spain a few weeks ago, but nothing about Belgium.
Quite a few news outlets have reported that Belgium, unlike other other countries, counts unconfirmed deaths that look like Covid-19 deaths as Covid-19 deaths. In most other countries, if there was no Covid-19 test done, the death doesn't count as Covid-19, no matter how much it fits the symptoms and disease course.5 -
KrissCanDoThis wrote: »I heard that there was misinformation spread at first that toilet paper was made mostly in markets like China and that someone claimed that this would make toilet paper hard to obtain, so people went absolutely ballistic trying to buy as much as they could. =/
It even happened here... and we make toilet paper here in this country, it doesnt even come from China lol
Oh!! So it was driven by fake news.
Maybe a little, but it is a phenomenon noticed anywhere a major weather event is predicted, and has been at least since I was a kid in the 60's. I live in the frozen north so we get several major snowstorms each winter. If one is predicted to be enough to close schools and businesses, people run out to the store and stock up on eggs, bread, milk, and toilet paper. Logic doesn't figure in to it. We have plenty of plows and the major streets are typically passable within hours of the end of the snowfall so most people are not stuck at home for more than 2 days. Even so, they have a deep seated need to buy huge quantities of TP.
The problem with the current quarantine hoarding is not that it is a new thing, it is that it was a nationwide thing. What is typically a short term regional phenomenon became a global one because of the global nature of the pandemic as opposed to a regional snowstorm (or hurricane for those in SE United States where TP hoarding also happens when a hurricane is predicted).
I'm quite familiar with the hurricane shopping phenomenon, but never noticed it to include major toilet paper purchases.0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »New Zealand had it's announcement on moving from Level 4 to Level 3 (which is a slight loosening of our quite strict lockdown rules) this afternoon. We were originally scheduled to come out of Level 4 this coming Thursday at the earliest. Level 3 comes in on Tuesday week, which gives an additional five days of hard core lockdown to really solidify the low transmission/new case numbers, and also means that those businesses that can resume are doing so at the start of the work week (Monday is a public holiday for ANZAC Day).
People who are able to work from home must continue to do so, retail, bars, cafes, restaurants etc remain physically closed to the public, but any of them who can trade without physical interaction with the public are able to (so, all online shopping can resume - previously only essential goods were available/able to be delivered, restaurants can do delivery or contactless pick up, etc), early childhood centres and school for up to Year 10 is available for those who need it (ie parents going back to work with no other options for childcare), strict requirements for distancing and hygiene in place for any operational businesses, we can venture a little further afield for recreation/exercise but still expected to be at home the majority of the time if not working away from home.
ETA: NZ is in really good shape, our number of new daily cases is down to single digits (actually oscillating between high single and low to mid teens), our number of recovered cases is nearly double the number of active (which sits at 454 as of this morning).
I'd have liked to see Level 4 continued for an additional week longer (and coming out of it on May the 4th would have just been cool), but I think so long as people get the message that Level 3 is not a licence to go out and start socialising, we'll be fine.
It will be interesting to see how Australia rolls back restrictions now that NZ have started. I know we are a ways behind, and that it will vary from state to state when it does.
Schools are open here for children of essential workers and others are learning remotely at home. Do you know what the reasoning is for NZ schools to open only for students up to Year 10? Just curious as I work in education management (Aus) and this hasn't been something I've heard discussed here.0 -
smithker75 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »New Zealand had it's announcement on moving from Level 4 to Level 3 (which is a slight loosening of our quite strict lockdown rules) this afternoon. We were originally scheduled to come out of Level 4 this coming Thursday at the earliest. Level 3 comes in on Tuesday week, which gives an additional five days of hard core lockdown to really solidify the low transmission/new case numbers, and also means that those businesses that can resume are doing so at the start of the work week (Monday is a public holiday for ANZAC Day).
People who are able to work from home must continue to do so, retail, bars, cafes, restaurants etc remain physically closed to the public, but any of them who can trade without physical interaction with the public are able to (so, all online shopping can resume - previously only essential goods were available/able to be delivered, restaurants can do delivery or contactless pick up, etc), early childhood centres and school for up to Year 10 is available for those who need it (ie parents going back to work with no other options for childcare), strict requirements for distancing and hygiene in place for any operational businesses, we can venture a little further afield for recreation/exercise but still expected to be at home the majority of the time if not working away from home.
ETA: NZ is in really good shape, our number of new daily cases is down to single digits (actually oscillating between high single and low to mid teens), our number of recovered cases is nearly double the number of active (which sits at 454 as of this morning).
I'd have liked to see Level 4 continued for an additional week longer (and coming out of it on May the 4th would have just been cool), but I think so long as people get the message that Level 3 is not a licence to go out and start socialising, we'll be fine.
It will be interesting to see how Australia rolls back restrictions now that NZ have started. I know we are a ways behind, and that it will vary from state to state when it does.
Schools are open here for children of essential workers and others are learning remotely at home. Do you know what the reasoning is for NZ schools to open only for students up to Year 10? Just curious as I work in education management (Aus) and this hasn't been something I've heard discussed here.
The limitation for up to Year 10 is due to the fact that kids over 14 can be legally left home alone here.
We have received notification from my son's high school and daughter's primary school that for the kids attending school (kids of workers who can't work from home) that they will still be receiving the same online programmes as those at home. They will just be in a classroom supervised by a teacher, not actually being taught in person.4 -
KrissCanDoThis wrote: »I heard that there was misinformation spread at first that toilet paper was made mostly in markets like China and that someone claimed that this would make toilet paper hard to obtain, so people went absolutely ballistic trying to buy as much as they could. =/
It even happened here... and we make toilet paper here in this country, it doesnt even come from China lol
Oh!! So it was driven by fake news.
Maybe a little, but it is a phenomenon noticed anywhere a major weather event is predicted, and has been at least since I was a kid in the 60's. I live in the frozen north so we get several major snowstorms each winter. If one is predicted to be enough to close schools and businesses, people run out to the store and stock up on eggs, bread, milk, and toilet paper. Logic doesn't figure in to it. We have plenty of plows and the major streets are typically passable within hours of the end of the snowfall so most people are not stuck at home for more than 2 days. Even so, they have a deep seated need to buy huge quantities of TP.
The problem with the current quarantine hoarding is not that it is a new thing, it is that it was a nationwide thing. What is typically a short term regional phenomenon became a global one because of the global nature of the pandemic as opposed to a regional snowstorm (or hurricane for those in SE United States where TP hoarding also happens when a hurricane is predicted).
I'm quite familiar with the hurricane shopping phenomenon, but never noticed it to include major toilet paper purchases.
Me, either. I'm in NC, and the threat of snow will empty shelves of bread, milk, and eggs. But I haven't seen it happen with TP here.1 -
Trying very hard to not get political, but I'm extremely disappointed that my state has decided to reopen everything except large venues and amusement parks by the end of next week. Despite all of my friends who work in healthcare saying our death and hospitalization stats are increasing at an alarming rate, the governor says the "numbers are favorable". He promised he wouldn't enter phase one until we had 14 days of a decline in numbers. We were lied to and now so many are at risk.24
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Trying very hard to not get political, but I'm extremely disappointed that my state has decided to reopen everything except large venues and amusement parks by the end of next week. Despite all of my friends who work in healthcare saying our death and hospitalization stats are increasing at an alarming rate, the governor says the "numbers are favorable". He promised he wouldn't enter phase one until we had 14 days of a decline in numbers. We were lied to and now so many are at risk.
I’m in TN and feel the same way. Numbers in my zip code are not under control. I don’t plan to stop social distancing regardless, but it will be harder to run in our no-sidewalks town if everyone is driving around. Plus I kind of like some of my neighbors and would prefer they not all die.
At least our local mayor has us locked down until May 5.16 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Trying very hard to not get political, but I'm extremely disappointed that my state has decided to reopen everything except large venues and amusement parks by the end of next week. Despite all of my friends who work in healthcare saying our death and hospitalization stats are increasing at an alarming rate, the governor says the "numbers are favorable". He promised he wouldn't enter phase one until we had 14 days of a decline in numbers. We were lied to and now so many are at risk.
I’m in TN and feel the same way. Numbers in my zip code are not under control. I don’t plan to stop social distancing regardless, but it will be harder to run in our no-sidewalks town if everyone is driving around. Plus I kind of like some of my neighbors and would prefer they not all die.
At least our local mayor has us locked down until May 5.
Unless someone just denies science completely, I think most will still conduct themselves the same way, with precautions. Only the foolhardy will go out and act like everything is normal. I'm sure there will be an uptick, but I also think that warmer weather might offset some of that.
I'm in Arizona and where just starting to see it out here in prevalence. I'm sure that we will open up by May 1st, when the University of Washington models say that we haven't neared our peak. U of W recommended AZ open up June 1st, not May 1st, so I'm in a similar boat. We plan on picking up food carryout once a week (with a mask), only going out to the grocery store once a week (with masks) and that's it.7 -
In Italy right now new infections are down--Naples-0, Rome-0. Only the North still has some new, but way down. There are now free beds in intensive care. Deaths are also in decline. So, the light at the end of the tunnel is closer.
Lockdown will lift in Rome May 4th. For us, things won't change much, but some stores will be opening. Masks will be mandatory, as they now are in diverse regions of Italy. Some people are selling their gold jewelry (for a fraction of the value) to have money to live on.22 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Trying very hard to not get political, but I'm extremely disappointed that my state has decided to reopen everything except large venues and amusement parks by the end of next week. Despite all of my friends who work in healthcare saying our death and hospitalization stats are increasing at an alarming rate, the governor says the "numbers are favorable". He promised he wouldn't enter phase one until we had 14 days of a decline in numbers. We were lied to and now so many are at risk.
I’m in TN and feel the same way. Numbers in my zip code are not under control. I don’t plan to stop social distancing regardless, but it will be harder to run in our no-sidewalks town if everyone is driving around. Plus I kind of like some of my neighbors and would prefer they not all die.
At least our local mayor has us locked down until May 5.
Our first cases came out of TN (Nashville) area it seems when TN was not on lock down like KY and most other states were at the time. Clearly we do not need to be hit like NYC but if most of us are going to get this corona virus sooner or later getting it in the second wave should be safer due to more Rx options that are being added. I hope the winter of 20-21 season will get this specific virus behind us for the most and that we stay prepared for the next virus. Thankful for the masses most will have COVID-19 and never know it.
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KrissCanDoThis wrote: »I heard that there was misinformation spread at first that toilet paper was made mostly in markets like China and that someone claimed that this would make toilet paper hard to obtain, so people went absolutely ballistic trying to buy as much as they could. =/
It even happened here... and we make toilet paper here in this country, it doesnt even come from China lol
Oh!! So it was driven by fake news.
Maybe a little, but it is a phenomenon noticed anywhere a major weather event is predicted, and has been at least since I was a kid in the 60's. I live in the frozen north so we get several major snowstorms each winter. If one is predicted to be enough to close schools and businesses, people run out to the store and stock up on eggs, bread, milk, and toilet paper. Logic doesn't figure in to it. We have plenty of plows and the major streets are typically passable within hours of the end of the snowfall so most people are not stuck at home for more than 2 days. Even so, they have a deep seated need to buy huge quantities of TP.
The problem with the current quarantine hoarding is not that it is a new thing, it is that it was a nationwide thing. What is typically a short term regional phenomenon became a global one because of the global nature of the pandemic as opposed to a regional snowstorm (or hurricane for those in SE United States where TP hoarding also happens when a hurricane is predicted).
I'm quite familiar with the hurricane shopping phenomenon, but never noticed it to include major toilet paper purchases.
People have mentioned it so apparently some have but it is definitely a joke here when snow is predicted because it happens all the time.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Trying very hard to not get political, but I'm extremely disappointed that my state has decided to reopen everything except large venues and amusement parks by the end of next week. Despite all of my friends who work in healthcare saying our death and hospitalization stats are increasing at an alarming rate, the governor says the "numbers are favorable". He promised he wouldn't enter phase one until we had 14 days of a decline in numbers. We were lied to and now so many are at risk.
I’m in TN and feel the same way. Numbers in my zip code are not under control. I don’t plan to stop social distancing regardless, but it will be harder to run in our no-sidewalks town if everyone is driving around. Plus I kind of like some of my neighbors and would prefer they not all die.
At least our local mayor has us locked down until May 5.
Our first cases came out of TN (Nashville) area it seems when TN was not on lock down like KY and most other states were at the time. Clearly we do not need to be hit like NYC but if most of us are going to get this corona virus sooner or later getting it in the second wave should be safer due to more Rx options that are being added. I hope the winter of 20-21 season will get this specific virus behind us for the most and that we stay prepared for the next virus. Thankful for the masses most will have COVID-19 and never know it.
I was reading an article this morning about a prison in Ohio which tested all inmates and correctional officers and found that over 70% had been infected. In one cell-block, every inmate was infected, yet about 40% of those had no symptoms. There was another study I read somewhere that said as many as 60% of folks infected may be asymptomatic (I think - I'll have to see if I can find it), yet the CDC claims that number is 25%. These are interesting data points, but they aren't definitive yet, and there is a LOT we don't know. It seems every day we get new information that colors information we previously had learned.
Edited to add one of the articles: https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2020/04/20/mass-testing-at-ohio-prison-shows-many-people-with-coronavirus-show-no-symptoms-underscoring-difficulty-of-reopening-states6 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Trying very hard to not get political, but I'm extremely disappointed that my state has decided to reopen everything except large venues and amusement parks by the end of next week. Despite all of my friends who work in healthcare saying our death and hospitalization stats are increasing at an alarming rate, the governor says the "numbers are favorable". He promised he wouldn't enter phase one until we had 14 days of a decline in numbers. We were lied to and now so many are at risk.
I’m in TN and feel the same way. Numbers in my zip code are not under control. I don’t plan to stop social distancing regardless, but it will be harder to run in our no-sidewalks town if everyone is driving around. Plus I kind of like some of my neighbors and would prefer they not all die.
At least our local mayor has us locked down until May 5.
Our first cases came out of TN (Nashville) area it seems when TN was not on lock down like KY and most other states were at the time. Clearly we do not need to be hit like NYC but if most of us are going to get this corona virus sooner or later getting it in the second wave should be safer due to more Rx options that are being added. I hope the winter of 20-21 season will get this specific virus behind us for the most and that we stay prepared for the next virus. Thankful for the masses most will have COVID-19 and never know it.
I was reading an article this morning about a prison in Ohio which tested all inmates and correctional officers and found that over 70% had been infected. In one cell-block, every inmate was infected, yet about 40% of those had no symptoms. There was another study I read somewhere that said as many as 60% of folks infected may be asymptomatic (I think - I'll have to see if I can find it), yet the CDC claims that number is 25%. These are interesting data points, but they aren't definitive yet, and there is a LOT we don't know. It seems every day we get new information that colors information we previously had learned.
Edited to add one of the articles: https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2020/04/20/mass-testing-at-ohio-prison-shows-many-people-with-coronavirus-show-no-symptoms-underscoring-difficulty-of-reopening-states
I think one thing to remember is that they aren't showing symptoms yet. The yet, is important. They may never show symptoms, but it could be a while before they do.9 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Trying very hard to not get political, but I'm extremely disappointed that my state has decided to reopen everything except large venues and amusement parks by the end of next week. Despite all of my friends who work in healthcare saying our death and hospitalization stats are increasing at an alarming rate, the governor says the "numbers are favorable". He promised he wouldn't enter phase one until we had 14 days of a decline in numbers. We were lied to and now so many are at risk.
I’m in TN and feel the same way. Numbers in my zip code are not under control. I don’t plan to stop social distancing regardless, but it will be harder to run in our no-sidewalks town if everyone is driving around. Plus I kind of like some of my neighbors and would prefer they not all die.
At least our local mayor has us locked down until May 5.
Our first cases came out of TN (Nashville) area it seems when TN was not on lock down like KY and most other states were at the time. Clearly we do not need to be hit like NYC but if most of us are going to get this corona virus sooner or later getting it in the second wave should be safer due to more Rx options that are being added. I hope the winter of 20-21 season will get this specific virus behind us for the most and that we stay prepared for the next virus. Thankful for the masses most will have COVID-19 and never know it.
I was reading an article this morning about a prison in Ohio which tested all inmates and correctional officers and found that over 70% had been infected. In one cell-block, every inmate was infected, yet about 40% of those had no symptoms. There was another study I read somewhere that said as many as 60% of folks infected may be asymptomatic (I think - I'll have to see if I can find it), yet the CDC claims that number is 25%. These are interesting data points, but they aren't definitive yet, and there is a LOT we don't know. It seems every day we get new information that colors information we previously had learned.
Edited to add one of the articles: https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2020/04/20/mass-testing-at-ohio-prison-shows-many-people-with-coronavirus-show-no-symptoms-underscoring-difficulty-of-reopening-states
A creative idea would be to pay prisoners a fee for their antibodies once recovered. It's not like they asked for Coronavirus. I'm certainly not in favor of letting everyone out either but the lack of PPE for our prison guard population is awful. There was just an article of a prison case worker dying at 39.3 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Trying very hard to not get political, but I'm extremely disappointed that my state has decided to reopen everything except large venues and amusement parks by the end of next week. Despite all of my friends who work in healthcare saying our death and hospitalization stats are increasing at an alarming rate, the governor says the "numbers are favorable". He promised he wouldn't enter phase one until we had 14 days of a decline in numbers. We were lied to and now so many are at risk.
I’m in TN and feel the same way. Numbers in my zip code are not under control. I don’t plan to stop social distancing regardless, but it will be harder to run in our no-sidewalks town if everyone is driving around. Plus I kind of like some of my neighbors and would prefer they not all die.
At least our local mayor has us locked down until May 5.
Our first cases came out of TN (Nashville) area it seems when TN was not on lock down like KY and most other states were at the time. Clearly we do not need to be hit like NYC but if most of us are going to get this corona virus sooner or later getting it in the second wave should be safer due to more Rx options that are being added. I hope the winter of 20-21 season will get this specific virus behind us for the most and that we stay prepared for the next virus. Thankful for the masses most will have COVID-19 and never know it.
I was reading an article this morning about a prison in Ohio which tested all inmates and correctional officers and found that over 70% had been infected. In one cell-block, every inmate was infected, yet about 40% of those had no symptoms. There was another study I read somewhere that said as many as 60% of folks infected may be asymptomatic (I think - I'll have to see if I can find it), yet the CDC claims that number is 25%. These are interesting data points, but they aren't definitive yet, and there is a LOT we don't know. It seems every day we get new information that colors information we previously had learned.
Edited to add one of the articles: https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2020/04/20/mass-testing-at-ohio-prison-shows-many-people-with-coronavirus-show-no-symptoms-underscoring-difficulty-of-reopening-states
I believe the estimates from cruise ships where everybody was tested came in at around half of those infected were asymptomatic.
However the antibody testing in Santa Clara County, CA indicates a significantly higher rate of asymptomatic carriers - 50 to 85 times the number of reported infected. I'm not sure it is the same thing, as reported numbers are only those tested positive... maybe some have symptoms and are not tested because the symptoms are mild or tests are difficult to obtain. Still, 50 to 85 times sounds very high compared to the more consistent numbers showing half are asymptomatic. I haven't checked into the antibody results from Los Angeles yet, which were supposed to be released yesterday.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-17/coronavirus-antibodies-study-santa-clara-county2 -
Interesting op/ed on the pneumonia from Covid-19. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html0
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I can't find a free link to the study in LA County but here's a brief outline of the results.
On Monday, an initial report from that study was released. Based on their findings, researchers estimate that about 4.1% of the county’s adult population could have an antibody to the virus. After adjusting that estimate for the statistical margin of error, their findings suggest that somewhere between 2.8% and 5.6% of adults in the county have antibodies to the virus in their blood.
As my colleague Melanie Mason explains in her story, that would translate to roughly 221,000 to 442,000 adults who had recovered from an infection in L.A. County by early April. But at the time researchers were conducting the study, there were fewer than 8,000 confirmed cases in the county. One doesn’t need a PhD to know that these are staggeringly different numbers.
So, what does all this mean? The study suggests that the coronavirus is much more widespread than originally known, but also potentially much less lethal.
We're waiting for more access to anti-body testing here. I'm fairly confident that both our daughter in SF and my husband had it at the end of Feb or early March. If my husband did have it I may have also and been asymptomatic. Not hanging all our hopes on it but it would be nice to know and help us relax things a bit here maybe.
Cases in Riverside County CA, where I live are still increasing everyday as are hospitalizations, Icu bed #'s and deaths so we're still on the upswing side of things unfortunately. They did open the golf courses, tennis courts and some of the trails yesterday though. Lots of precautions in place though still.5 -
That's interesting, Guardian is reporting that that WHO have found that a smaller proportion of people have antibodies than they expected, less than that quoted above.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/20/studies-suggest-very-few-have-had-covid-19-without-symptoms
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littlegreenparrot1 wrote: »That's interesting, Guardian is reporting that that WHO have found that a smaller proportion of people have antibodies than they expected, less than that quoted above.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/20/studies-suggest-very-few-have-had-covid-19-without-symptoms
There are a lot of unknowns, and it takes several weeks for antibodies to form. I wouldn't use that one Guardian article as the gospel.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »I think people take out their thoughts on the wrong people.. which is unfortunate.
In times like that people often hear bad news like that and are instantly overcome by the problems they have in their own lives, debt, cost of kids, insurance, etc.. it often leaves people thinking that the burden is solely put on them only and not anyone else in a higher position.
The fear and anger and sudden-ness of the news doesnt leave much room for stopping and wondering if higher ups are also going to have to deal with the same thing.
People also often think that because they make more money they would have it easier, but honestly, people often live on the edge of or outside their means.. and as upper management, Its often deemed inappropriate for them to discuss their pay, their Bill's, their home life with the people they are managing.. I know some do it, but it can often back fire on them also..
So were blind to their struggles and consumed by the problem in front of us, that we criticize them for what's happening and are even more harsh behind their backs..
I'm guilty of it too sometimes.. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with that.
I'm mostly frustrated right now because my proposal has most employees missing the total of a pay check spread across the year, which sucks...but the alternative is just canning people. Do you want a job but you'll miss a paycheck over a year or have no job, no insurance, etc? But apparently that doesn't translate...I can only do one or the other. Hopefully it will all become clear for my peeps over the weekend. I'm quite literally trying to find a way not to have to fire you for something that's not your fault...
I’m curious. Isn’t laying off, a better term? What are the grounds for firing?
Back in 2008, we had to take a 20% pay cut, and a cut back of hours, and some people were laid off. Many people did. Through no fault of our own, because of mismanagement by businesses. Time will tell, but universal health care may become critical during this crisis. Affordable health care is a joke for most people in the US. A friend that has been furloughed during this, will have to pay just under $1600/month for Cobra starting in May. Not many people can afford that.
Sure...whatever makes someone feel good. These aren't things I'm saying to my employees, this is in my head to computer screen..to me there is no difference between "fired" "laid off" "terminated", etc. These are just semantics...bottom line is people are without jobs. I was "laid off" in 2008 with the financial crisis...I personally didn't give a *kitten* what anyone called it. I'm not in HR, I'm in accounting...HR might lay down a little sugar, but it's still all the same *kitten* thing....you're done. I would rather furlough hours throughout the year than terminate positions which was my entire point...wanna job with a little less money or no job? Also, if we furlough they can keep their health care benefits, which is pretty important. IDK about the importance of universal HC after this...I've always thought it important, but politics...I'm not sure much will actually change with this.
ETA: who knows...maybe HR will come out with some new termination term like "corona relief"...does that really change anything?
I was furloughed during a state budget crunch - it was a day or two a month over a couple of years. Lay-offs were different - that meant not reporting for work at all.4 -
littlegreenparrot1 wrote: »That's interesting, Guardian is reporting that that WHO have found that a smaller proportion of people have antibodies than they expected, less than that quoted above.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/20/studies-suggest-very-few-have-had-covid-19-without-symptoms
I'm sure we need a lot more antibody testing to really know one way or another how many people have had it and maybe weren't ever tested or didn't even know they had it. There is also some speculation that the antibody testing may not be as accurate as previously thought. I just copied what was reported in the LA Times because someone asked about it. There is still so much unknown at this time. I never believe everything I read.............LOL, although I am trying to find some positive news where I can.
I've only left the house twice since March 16th. One a drive to the beach when we picnicked in the car and one early morning trip to CVS. My husband is doing all the grocery shopping right now so only one of us is potentially exposed. He's 72 and I'm 70. I'm also waiting for elective surgeries to begin again for the new hip I desperately need, so I'm trying to go into that as healthy as possible.
Stay safe and healthy everyone and even though you may be in a state with some controversial opening of businesses, it doesn't mean you should put your own health or others at risk if you can prevent it. Things are still very uncertain and changing daily as far as what we actually know.10 -
Snowflake and others, who live in other countries:
With new laws and requirements from your governments, how are your people feeling about it? Do they easily comply or balk at being forced to do certain things they don't want to do?
Here in America, it saddens and scares me to see thousands of protesters congregate over it all being unconstitutional. Not many people are using masks or certainly not social distancing during these protests.
How many will needlessly suffer the ramifications of these large groups?
Businesses do need to start easing into it again so people can live and the economy can rebound a bit before it completely tanks. But with so many denying to do what's right and responsible, it's terribly scary to think about. Even such a simple thing as wearing a mask and people are already saying they'll refuse because it doesn't do any good anyways.
Just curious.......8 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »I think people take out their thoughts on the wrong people.. which is unfortunate.
In times like that people often hear bad news like that and are instantly overcome by the problems they have in their own lives, debt, cost of kids, insurance, etc.. it often leaves people thinking that the burden is solely put on them only and not anyone else in a higher position.
The fear and anger and sudden-ness of the news doesnt leave much room for stopping and wondering if higher ups are also going to have to deal with the same thing.
People also often think that because they make more money they would have it easier, but honestly, people often live on the edge of or outside their means.. and as upper management, Its often deemed inappropriate for them to discuss their pay, their Bill's, their home life with the people they are managing.. I know some do it, but it can often back fire on them also..
So were blind to their struggles and consumed by the problem in front of us, that we criticize them for what's happening and are even more harsh behind their backs..
I'm guilty of it too sometimes.. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with that.
I'm mostly frustrated right now because my proposal has most employees missing the total of a pay check spread across the year, which sucks...but the alternative is just canning people. Do you want a job but you'll miss a paycheck over a year or have no job, no insurance, etc? But apparently that doesn't translate...I can only do one or the other. Hopefully it will all become clear for my peeps over the weekend. I'm quite literally trying to find a way not to have to fire you for something that's not your fault...
I’m curious. Isn’t laying off, a better term? What are the grounds for firing?
Back in 2008, we had to take a 20% pay cut, and a cut back of hours, and some people were laid off. Many people did. Through no fault of our own, because of mismanagement by businesses. Time will tell, but universal health care may become critical during this crisis. Affordable health care is a joke for most people in the US. A friend that has been furloughed during this, will have to pay just under $1600/month for Cobra starting in May. Not many people can afford that.
Sure...whatever makes someone feel good. These aren't things I'm saying to my employees, this is in my head to computer screen..to me there is no difference between "fired" "laid off" "terminated", etc. These are just semantics...bottom line is people are without jobs. I was "laid off" in 2008 with the financial crisis...I personally didn't give a *kitten* what anyone called it. I'm not in HR, I'm in accounting...HR might lay down a little sugar, but it's still all the same *kitten* thing....you're done. I would rather furlough hours throughout the year than terminate positions which was my entire point...wanna job with a little less money or no job? Also, if we furlough they can keep their health care benefits, which is pretty important. IDK about the importance of universal HC after this...I've always thought it important, but politics...I'm not sure much will actually change with this.
ETA: who knows...maybe HR will come out with some new termination term like "corona relief"...does that really change anything?
I was furloughed during a state budget crunch - it was a day or two a month over a couple of years. Lay-offs were different - that meant not reporting for work at all.
I wasn't saying there isn't a difference in furlough and being laid off...I was responding to the question in regards to terminology of "fired" or "laid off" and that in the big picture it's really semantics. To someone getting laid off, they can call it whatever they want...it all still means they don't have a job.
I'm hoping that we don't even have to go the route of furlough by substantially cutting expenditures and maintaining vacancies when/if people leave or retire...but people should be prepared for that possibility.3 -
Snowflake and others, who live in other countries:
With new laws and requirements from your governments, how are your people feeling about it? Do they easily comply or balk at being forced to do certain things they don't want to do?
Here in America, it saddens and scares me to see thousands of protesters congregate over it all being unconstitutional. Not many people are using masks or certainly not social distancing during these protests. How many will needlessly suffer the ramifications of these large groups?
Businesses do need to start easing into it again so people can live and the economy can rebound a bit before it completely tanks. But with so many denying to do what's right and responsible, it's terribly scary to think about. Even such a simple thing as wearing a mask and people are already saying they'll refuse because it doesn't do any good anyways.
Just curious.......
Italy is a much smaller country than the US. However, what's happening is that the North is highly infected with many cases and many deaths. As you move south there are pockets or clusters, especially in nursing homes, but infection is much less than the North. People in the South do not see why they should be under strict lockdown. They want things loosened up. And yes, there are those who are afraid that the South could become like the North. Since this is new, no one knows for sure. The economy is in desperate straights after over a month of lockdown, so something has to give. I think they have to try opening up with precautions. But, when you think about it, people as a whole have to be behind the measures. You can't make people do something for a long period of time--unless you've got a dictatorship.6 -
Snowflake and others, who live in other countries:
With new laws and requirements from your governments, how are your people feeling about it? Do they easily comply or balk at being forced to do certain things they don't want to do?
Here in America, it saddens and scares me to see thousands of protesters congregate over it all being unconstitutional. Not many people are using masks or certainly not social distancing during these protests. How many will needlessly suffer the ramifications of these large groups?
Businesses do need to start easing into it again so people can live and the economy can rebound a bit before it completely tanks. But with so many denying to do what's right and responsible, it's terribly scary to think about. Even such a simple thing as wearing a mask and people are already saying they'll refuse because it doesn't do any good anyways.
Just curious.......
A few types of people:
- Those who comply and feel all the measures are in the right place
- Those who want to comply but sometimes don't and justify it as "not a big deal" because they're safe
- Those who comply begrudgingly because they don't want to be fined
- Those who don't comply and know exactly what they're doing, but do it anyway
- Those who want to comply but are too preoccupied with their financial future so their actions are more influenced by that than by safety and health concerns
- Those who don't really understand the seriousness of the situation
Most people here support the current measures, but less than half of them comply without external supervision. People are very susceptible to group influence. If they see a well organized waiting line they stand in line and keep their distance. If there isn't an already organized line, they'll act chaotically and stand closer. If a few cars pass by the street, they'll have the courage to drive their car (driving is not allowed here).
Although compliance varies from place to place, the general consensus is that people are happy with the safety measures being taken, but are unhappy with the financial ramifications to the point where some are starting to question if all of this is worth it. They aren't exactly "against" because they want to be, they're just tired. I haven't heard any calls for protest, just some typical social media whining.10 -
My observation is that there are two completely different worlds in this currently.
1) People who are able to continue to work and have not experienced economic hardship
2) People who are no longer able to work and are struggling.
I am lucky to be in group 1, changing from 50% working at home to 100%. So while I face daily aggravations with various components of the "shelter in place" thing, I am not truly suffering. I have food on the table, so for me to complain about lost social opportunities, recreation, and hobbies would be very petty and selfish. And yet social media reveals that a lot of people in my situation are dying right now, and I think they should keep things in perspective.16
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