Coronavirus prep
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👍🏻 for as long as it takes, not without, minimally, a face mask. I don’t need to be in anyone’s slipstream when exercising.
And BTW, I have agreed with most of your postings I’ve seen here. 🌹7 -
And you won't touch anything that has virus on it? Ever. Gas pump, credit card terminal, door knob? You gonna wear sanitizer around your neck? Do you live alone? Do you have money coming in without ever leaving your house? If so, then you're very privileged. A lot of the world is not.8
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cmriverside wrote: »And you won't touch anything that has virus on it? Ever. Gas pump, credit card terminal, door knob? You gonna wear sanitizer around your neck? Do you have money coming in without ever leaving your house? If so, then you're very privileged. A lot of the world is not.
Wow, judgemental! Very middle class, never privileged.
Of course I’ll touch those things. But, I won’t participate in unnecessary activities, taking risks that may jeopardize someone else.14 -
cmriverside wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »The Memphis protest had like three guys at it. It rained, and no one was invested enough in the protest to get wet. One of the three wasn’t even from here, he drove in from Fayette county.
The few protesters we do have in Tennessee are a nasty breed, however. Nashville had some chick with a sign that said “Sacrifice the Weak.” Sign went viral. I always wonder, don’t any of these people have elderly parents? Or do they just really not like them much?
OMG that's horrible.
People like that, actually have friends and family that still speak to them? Oh wait, being stupid and unfeeling isn't just one isolated incident. And it's not just the elderly parents anymore. It's children, babies, essential workers, doctors/nurses, healthy 20-30-40-50 yos., deaths are touching everyone.
Definitely a lot of ignorance out there. I read the other day about a 5 month old dying from this. It’s very sad the total lack of compassion.
The thing is with that image of the beach: most of those groups are six feet apart. That's the "rule" in California, right? I know here in Washington the rule also states to not be within six feet of anyone, and to not go out with people that you don't live with. Well, in my twenties I lived in a couple different houses with 4-6 unrelated people. What are you gonna do? Stop everyone and ask for ID? I mean, it's impossible to enforce, most people won't obey it anyway, and like someone said upthread the paranoia isn't good for us at all. Being afraid of every person out there is bad.
I live in King County, WA. We've been locked down since March 11. It's not sustainable. With about 500 people per 100,000 testing positive (and that number is derived by only testing those with symptoms, so I concede it's not representational) it's pretty hard to strike a lot of fear into people. Out of those 6,000 people who tested positive (out of a population of 2.2 million,) 361 have died. 224 of those were over 80 YO.
It's also a question of density. I would think that so many people crowded together in clumps, even six feet from each other, negates the distancing.
I'm glad your county is faring so well--it sounds like the lockdown has been effective. I hope your county can open sooner rather than later.4 -
missysippy930 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »And you won't touch anything that has virus on it? Ever. Gas pump, credit card terminal, door knob? You gonna wear sanitizer around your neck? Do you have money coming in without ever leaving your house? If so, then you're very privileged. A lot of the world is not.
Wow, judgemental! Very middle class, never privileged.
Of course I’ll touch those things. But, I won’t participate in unnecessary activities, taking risks that may jeopardize someone else.
No, just trying to get you to think critically.
If someone is going to the beach then they have made a decision to risk it (what that amount of risk is could be debated.) Of course you don't have to go - and you are free to lock yourself up. Many people are doing just that - most of us, in fact. And yeah, it's working. I don't think that beach picture is necessarily riskier than going to the grocery store - that's what my point here is. Are they touching common things? Hard to tell. Maybe not.
I mean, I just don't see how this is sustainable without a complete societal meltdown. People are taking it into their own hands. I am having a hard time arguing with that at this point.8 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »fitlulu4150 wrote: »Here's a pic from Huntington Beach in CA from today. Yeah, I think people have given up on social distancing, at least at the beaches here. I grew up between HB and Newport Beach in CA and while this isn't crowded by many standards, I don't think folks are really obeying the rules here. No clue what that might mean but as a 70 year old, I kind of think I'm going to be staying home for a long time even though I'd love nothing better than to go to the beach.
Wow. That is just so wrong.
Some of the reports said people were going to the beach to escape the record high heat in the area.
What do you think, probably 98%+ of the people out there have air conditioned homes and cars?
That would seem about right since an estimated 84% of homes here in the frozen north have A/C3 -
I bought groceries this a.m. and was surprised at all the stuff I couldn't get or had to find substitutes for; it didn't seem to be like this even in the beginning. I thought retailers were catching up, maybe I just picked a bad time or something.
On the upside I'd have to say a majority of the shoppers/workers are now wearing masks. Even if masks are not 100% effective, it makes me feel a bit more protected.
So can someone please tell me what to believe? Everything seems to be hanging on the hope of more testing becoming available, testing to see if you have Covid-19 and testing to see if your body has antibodies so you'd be immune to it now. BUT with all the false negatives/positives and the fact that even if you've had it once may not indicate you're immune...........none of it's making sense to me. What good really is the testing and why is everyone waiting with baited breath for them to be more available? 8 -
I bought groceries this a.m. and was surprised at all the stuff I couldn't get or had to find substitutes for; it didn't seem to be like this even in the beginning. I thought retailers were catching up, maybe I just picked a bad time or something.
On the upside I'd have to say a majority of the shoppers/workers are now wearing masks. Even if masks are not 100% effective, it makes me feel a bit more protected.
So can someone please tell me what to believe? Everything seems to be hanging on the hope of more testing becoming available, testing to see if you have Covid-19 and testing to see if your body has antibodies so you'd be immune to it now. BUT with all the false negatives/positives and the fact that even if you've had it once may not indicate you're immune...........none of it's making sense to me. What good really is the testing and why is everyone waiting with baited breath for them to be more available?
I read that they think that there are at least 30 strains of COVID19. Some are more aggressive than others. Without testing to see who has antibodies how can they tell for certain that you re-infect? They need to find those with antibodies, and then ask for volunteers to re-infect. Not simple, or fast. Then there's the question of how long immunity lasts. There again, testing. Some say sunlight kills the virus on surfaces after a certain time frame.
This is new and there's a lot of data to evaluate and more data to collect. I think that there are months ahead of us, so patience is needed. We will learn more going forward and answers will come. In the meantime, evaluate your situation and stay safe. By that, I mean, if you are assisting elderly, then you need to be careful. If you're elderly yourself, ditto. We have to learn to protect ourselves from others, even family members for awhile.7 -
snowflake954 wrote: »I bought groceries this a.m. and was surprised at all the stuff I couldn't get or had to find substitutes for; it didn't seem to be like this even in the beginning. I thought retailers were catching up, maybe I just picked a bad time or something.
On the upside I'd have to say a majority of the shoppers/workers are now wearing masks. Even if masks are not 100% effective, it makes me feel a bit more protected.
So can someone please tell me what to believe? Everything seems to be hanging on the hope of more testing becoming available, testing to see if you have Covid-19 and testing to see if your body has antibodies so you'd be immune to it now. BUT with all the false negatives/positives and the fact that even if you've had it once may not indicate you're immune...........none of it's making sense to me. What good really is the testing and why is everyone waiting with baited breath for them to be more available?
I read that they think that there are at least 30 strains of COVID19. Some are more aggressive than others. Without testing to see who has antibodies how can they tell for certain that you re-infect? They need to find those with antibodies, and then ask for volunteers to re-infect. Not simple, or fast. Then there's the question of how long immunity lasts. There again, testing. Some say sunlight kills the virus on surfaces after a certain time frame.
This is new and there's a lot of data to evaluate and more data to collect. I think that there are months ahead of us, so patience is needed. We will learn more going forward and answers will come. In the meantime, evaluate your situation and stay safe. By that, I mean, if you are assisting elderly, then you need to be careful. If you're elderly yourself, ditto. We have to learn to protect ourselves from others, even family members for awhile.
We don't know these things for sure, about how long immunity lasts or which antibodies mean people have immunity. Doing all this testing can help us answer these questions. But you are right that it will take a long time, months, to know the first answer.4 -
I went to the laundromat today and then to the store. I have plenty of food to last awhile, but was hoping they had toilet paper back in stock. This time, I decided to not try several stores as I know that if a store is out, they all are. No sense in putting myself at additional risk for no benefit whatsoever.
The toilet paper aisle here looks exactly the same as it has for well over a month now. What is surprising is that there are still 4 boxes of Kleenex remaining. It's a respiratory illness, so that doesn't make sense... anyway, no toilet paper and no paper towels either. And since some people didn't believe me last time, here's a photo for the skeptics:
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snowflake954 wrote: »I bought groceries this a.m. and was surprised at all the stuff I couldn't get or had to find substitutes for; it didn't seem to be like this even in the beginning. I thought retailers were catching up, maybe I just picked a bad time or something.
On the upside I'd have to say a majority of the shoppers/workers are now wearing masks. Even if masks are not 100% effective, it makes me feel a bit more protected.
So can someone please tell me what to believe? Everything seems to be hanging on the hope of more testing becoming available, testing to see if you have Covid-19 and testing to see if your body has antibodies so you'd be immune to it now. BUT with all the false negatives/positives and the fact that even if you've had it once may not indicate you're immune...........none of it's making sense to me. What good really is the testing and why is everyone waiting with baited breath for them to be more available?
I read that they think that there are at least 30 strains of COVID19. Some are more aggressive than others. Without testing to see who has antibodies how can they tell for certain that you re-infect? They need to find those with antibodies, and then ask for volunteers to re-infect. Not simple, or fast. Then there's the question of how long immunity lasts. There again, testing. Some say sunlight kills the virus on surfaces after a certain time frame.
This is new and there's a lot of data to evaluate and more data to collect. I think that there are months ahead of us, so patience is needed. We will learn more going forward and answers will come. In the meantime, evaluate your situation and stay safe. By that, I mean, if you are assisting elderly, then you need to be careful. If you're elderly yourself, ditto. We have to learn to protect ourselves from others, even family members for awhile.
This is a Chinese study that suggests it has mutated and that that ravaged Italy and NY and parts of the midwest are different than those that hit China and the western US. Makes sense to me but still questionable.4 -
fitlulu4150 wrote: »Here's a pic from Huntington Beach in CA from today. Yeah, I think people have given up on social distancing, at least at the beaches here. I grew up between HB and Newport Beach in CA and while this isn't crowded by many standards, I don't think folks are really obeying the rules here. No clue what that might mean but as a 70 year old, I kind of think I'm going to be staying home for a long time even though I'd love nothing better than to go to the beach.
Wow. That is just so wrong.
You have to wonder how many of those on the beaches, when they end up getting sick in 2 weeks, will curse themselves for being stupid and senseless?
(snip)
Prediction: Here in the US, some small fraction of them will seek (and possibly find) someone - someone else - to sue over it. They will believe it is obviously someone else's fault, and that they deserve to be compensated.
Not an analogous situation, but just for the eye-roll value: A group of people here in Michigan were filing suit against the state, because they were (temporarily) deprived of their right to use their "up North" vacation homes. Boo-f'n- entitled-arrogant-hoo, IMO.
Context: "Up North" is largely rural, very limited health care infrastructure, because the permanent population density is low. The transitory summer density is much higher, but for all but the most immediate and acute situations, the normal summer cottage owner will go back to their big-city doctor and hospital if health problems arise. Even in immediate and acute situations, it's pretty common for the person to be stabilized and sent back to a hospital nearer their all-year home. "Up North" profoundly didn't need mass numbers flitting back and forth from their greater-Detroit (and other) all-year homes in more-infected places, to their cottages in less-infected places, hitting up gas stations and take-outs along the way. So, one of the "over-restrictions" the governor imposed was telling people to pick one home, and stay there. (They had a couple of days to move from one to the other, beforehand - announced ahead of imposition.)12 -
cmriverside wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »The Memphis protest had like three guys at it. It rained, and no one was invested enough in the protest to get wet. One of the three wasn’t even from here, he drove in from Fayette county.
The few protesters we do have in Tennessee are a nasty breed, however. Nashville had some chick with a sign that said “Sacrifice the Weak.” Sign went viral. I always wonder, don’t any of these people have elderly parents? Or do they just really not like them much?
OMG that's horrible. People like that, actually have friends and family that still speak to them? Oh wait, being stupid and unfeeling isn't just one isolated incident. And it's not just the elderly parents anymore. It's children, babies, essential workers, doctors/nurses, healthy 20-30-40-50 yos., deaths are touching everyone.
Definitely a lot of ignorance out there. I read the other day about a 5 month old dying from this. It’s very sad the total lack of compassion.
The thing is with that image of the beach: most of those groups are six feet apart. That's the "rule" in California, right? I know here in Washington the rule also states to not be within six feet of anyone, and to not go out with people that you don't live with. Well, in my twenties I lived in a couple different houses with 4-6 unrelated people. What are you gonna do? Stop everyone and ask for ID? I mean, it's impossible to enforce, most people won't obey it anyway, and like someone said upthread the paranoia isn't good for us at all. Being afraid of every person out there is bad.
I live in King County, WA. We've been locked down since March 11. It's not sustainable. With about 500 people per 100,000 testing positive (and that number is derived by only testing those with symptoms, so I concede it's not representational) it's pretty hard to strike a lot of fear into people. Out of those 6,000 people who tested positive (out of a population of 2.2 million,) 361 have died. 224 of those were over 80 YO.
It isn’t sustainable, but we’re talking about a microscopic virus that anyone is vulnerable to contracting and spreading through contact with another person possibly, without any knowledge of having the virus. Common sense should prevail by limiting possible contact through unnecessary mingling in society, until there’s a vaccine available. Going to the beach, or getting your nails done, isn’t really necessary. Reopening slowly, with strict guidelines and safety equipment (masks etc). Daily monitoring of the health of employees. Keeping track of who we have been in contact with, being mindful of the chance of contracting the virus through possible contact.
But you'd have to convince people that they are in fact in mortal danger.
The numbers just don't support that.
AND - that microscopic virus...you think you're vigilent enough to mitigate any possible contact for the 18 months that it will take to create a vaccination process? Because I don't think I am, and I live alone so I 100% control my environment.
Your numbers aren't the same as numbers elsewhere. Why are numbers in WA less bad? Early lockdown or less bad strain? Who knows. But the results in many other places (like NYC) are far more dire.4 -
People would need to understand how a virus spreads to understand why and how they're being asked to social distance.
Healthy, low risk people passing a virus that is 99% harmless to them back and forth with each other provides constantly revived, multiple vectors for the virus to get to the vulnerable. It keeps the virus alive and moving until it can land it's next compromised target. It's also possible that accumulating multiple exposures to the virus increases the viral load in a healthy person to the point that they are now themselves vulnerable. That's one theory as to why so many doctors and nurses contracted fatal or near fatal cases themselves.
But the average American unfortunately doesn't understand vectors, or viral load, or the lifecycle of a new human virus. And we don't know a heck of a lot about the less successful parts of our history, so we're not even learning from 1918.
55,000 is a lot of people
but most of those deaths were in hotspots, so the vast majority of Americans don't know anyone personally who died or has even been hospitalized. Add that to not understanding vectors and viral loads, and it's too easy to assume social distancing was unnecessary, rather than to assume it is successfully protecting us.
For a country of our size and varied population, I don't think there is a 100% obvious best path forward for the US. Any choice will have a dramatic downside. But unfortunately it looks like most of the choices will be made by people who don't understand the choices, because the national conversation is more about politics and ideology than about science.
I hope that as things open up, people will still be mindful of social distancing and people will be willing to protect themselves with hand washing and masks at least. But I'm afraid that cracking open the door will lead to a stampede, and the second wave is going to be brutal. Sorry, I clearly need to break open a coloring book and binge watch some sitcoms to brighten my mood
and stay the heck away from the news and social media for a day or two maybe. 26 -
Yeah, the news..I can't watch it.1
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Actual numbers of dead are more in NY, of course. Actual infection rate is higher, due to density. I wonder how much can be attributed to care-giver fatigue and lack of resources in NY too.
We've had several clusters in nursing homes/care facilities, and that accounts for a small discrepancy.0 -
snowflake954 wrote: »I bought groceries this a.m. and was surprised at all the stuff I couldn't get or had to find substitutes for; it didn't seem to be like this even in the beginning. I thought retailers were catching up, maybe I just picked a bad time or something.
On the upside I'd have to say a majority of the shoppers/workers are now wearing masks. Even if masks are not 100% effective, it makes me feel a bit more protected.
So can someone please tell me what to believe? Everything seems to be hanging on the hope of more testing becoming available, testing to see if you have Covid-19 and testing to see if your body has antibodies so you'd be immune to it now. BUT with all the false negatives/positives and the fact that even if you've had it once may not indicate you're immune...........none of it's making sense to me. What good really is the testing and why is everyone waiting with baited breath for them to be more available?
I read that they think that there are at least 30 strains of COVID19. Some are more aggressive than others. Without testing to see who has antibodies how can they tell for certain that you re-infect? They need to find those with antibodies, and then ask for volunteers to re-infect. Not simple, or fast. Then there's the question of how long immunity lasts. There again, testing. Some say sunlight kills the virus on surfaces after a certain time frame.
This is new and there's a lot of data to evaluate and more data to collect. I think that there are months ahead of us, so patience is needed. We will learn more going forward and answers will come. In the meantime, evaluate your situation and stay safe. By that, I mean, if you are assisting elderly, then you need to be careful. If you're elderly yourself, ditto. We have to learn to protect ourselves from others, even family members for awhile.
We don't know these things for sure, about how long immunity lasts or which antibodies mean people have immunity. Doing all this testing can help us answer these questions. But you are right that it will take a long time, months, to know the first answer.
I think we don't usually see this early, confusing discovery phase play out so clearly in the media, with other less virulent, urgent kinds of disease. As basic research gets done, more is learned, and collective expert views change (improve). It looks like disagreement and and confusion from up close, but it's the normal nature of progress. In most diseases' cases, the coverage is low-key, only visible to experts in the field, and sometimes to research-literate patients/families most concerned about a condition.
I've spent some time pretty tuned into breast cancer research and treatment. The whole process is thick with: "This looks promising", "look, here's new treatment targets", "maybe not so promising in real people, no better than current standard of care", "yikes, horrible side effects in human trials", "here's a new treatment/prevention target", "no it isn't", . . . .
But it's mostly invisible to the general population, other than some random in vitro test of XYZ that gets trumpeted by the usual not-very-science-literate clickbait yellow press, and has silly people around the world saying cancer is cured, just eat/drink/inject/apply XYZ! (Lately, Alzheimer's/dementia is probably even a better example of this.)
With COVID, that whole process of research is playing out on the main stage, in full public view, covered by reporters with . . . hmm, a wide range of science literacy, or its lack.
Add that to some popular bias that experts are idiots in general, and to everyone's desperate desire for there to be a clear answer about what to do . . . and here we are, generally confused, and sometimes mad that no one has answers.
P.S.
I have brave friends who were treated in breast cancer drug trials with drugs that turned out not to help their personal survival at all, but that had permanent side effects. If they'd not gone through that, we'd not know who not to treat with those drugs. Brave people around the world now are volunteering for various COVID-related treatment/vaccination trials, and sometimes doing so without those strategies having gone through all the usual levels of safety trials in the usual slow, methodical ways. Those people are heros, too.20 -
fitlulu4150 wrote: »Here's a pic from Huntington Beach in CA from today. Yeah, I think people have given up on social distancing, at least at the beaches here. I grew up between HB and Newport Beach in CA and while this isn't crowded by many standards, I don't think folks are really obeying the rules here. No clue what that might mean but as a 70 year old, I kind of think I'm going to be staying home for a long time even though I'd love nothing better than to go to the beach.
Going to the beach is against the current COVID19 restrictions where I live, so that's just not happening.0 -
Yeah guess I can't talk. I'm kind of rebelious sometimes. I just want everyone to be ok. I was doing the washing the groceries too and now stopped and the leaving it to sit for a few days. Over it all. I feel I was a bit paranoid really about how clean everything was if I left the house. That is not good. I feel better I've let it go a bit now.
The little bit of rebel in me is shielded by the fact I can work from home. For those who need to go to the physical workspace, my employer is insisting on masks, gloves, physical distancing, hand washing sanitizing, etc. I will likely be the first to be disciplined for not using a mask, if I'm forced to move back there from my home office.1 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I went to the laundromat today and then to the store. I have plenty of food to last awhile, but was hoping they had toilet paper back in stock. This time, I decided to not try several stores as I know that if a store is out, they all are. No sense in putting myself at additional risk for no benefit whatsoever.
The toilet paper aisle here looks exactly the same as it has for well over a month now. What is surprising is that there are still 4 boxes of Kleenex remaining. It's a respiratory illness, so that doesn't make sense... anyway, no toilet paper and no paper towels either. And since some people didn't believe me last time, here's a photo for the skeptics:
Good grief!
If you get desperate enough to drive down here we’re starting to see normal supply in the outskirts of Memphis. I found both tp and paper towels at both Kroger and Walmart in Collierville. Still very low on cleaning products but I also managed to snag some bleach. This week’s shortage was meat - I guess there is a panic starting due to news about the plants closing, but chicken was entirely gone and other meat very scant.3
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