Coronavirus prep
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On Italian News this morning--areas with No-Vax demonstrations are seeing a spike in COVID cases and hospitalizations. A northern town, Trieste, which had weekly demonstrations (they have an important port and workers are No-Vax, but people of like persuasion travelled there from all over the country to protest) has forbidden any more protesting until Jan 1st. Their hospitals are now full.13
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Saliva covid testing is being trialed in school children in Hampshire and the Isle of White, England. Its happening under the control of one of the Southampton Universities and the Regional hospital. The youngsters put saliva into a sample pot and return it to school who send it on to the lab. If this proves accurate as those tests we have, I hope it could be rolled out because its far more easy to use than the present swabs, particularly in children.10
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snowflake954 wrote: »On Italian News this morning--areas with No-Vax demonstrations are seeing a spike in COVID cases and hospitalizations. A northern town, Trieste, which had weekly demonstrations (they have an important port and workers are No-Vax, but people of like persuasion travelled there from all over the country to protest) has forbidden any more protesting until Jan 1st. Their hospitals are now full.
Sorry to read after nearly 2 years Covid is still a hot problem in Italy. The article below indicates no COVID-19 end is sight in my view.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/cdc-very-high-risk-travel-destinations-november-1/index.html3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »On Italian News this morning--areas with No-Vax demonstrations are seeing a spike in COVID cases and hospitalizations. A northern town, Trieste, which had weekly demonstrations (they have an important port and workers are No-Vax, but people of like persuasion travelled there from all over the country to protest) has forbidden any more protesting until Jan 1st. Their hospitals are now full.
Sorry to read after nearly 2 years Covid is still a hot problem in Italy. The article below indicates no COVID-19 end is sight in my view.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/cdc-very-high-risk-travel-destinations-november-1/index.html
Yup. My family wants me to come home to Minnesota. My mother is 92 and wants to see me, but I'm not moving right now even though I'm vaxed. Things change too fast.11 -
Saliva covid testing is being trialed in school children in Hampshire and the Isle of White, England. Its happening under the control of one of the Southampton Universities and the Regional hospital. The youngsters put saliva into a sample pot and return it to school who send it on to the lab. If this proves accurate as those tests we have, I hope it could be rolled out because its far more easy to use than the present swabs, particularly in children.
I'm in California and took the saliva test. It came back inconclusive BUT I still had a foreign substance in my mouth at the time. It wasn't easy filling up the little vial, let me tell ya!2 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study
Scientific reports like this is not helping convince those in opposition to the vaccine for one reason or another.
Our leaders have consistently messed up with their COVID messaging.
The Vaxx reduces your risk of hospitalization and death, which also frees up our ICU capacity.
This is a powerful enough message by itself, without the prior pretending it makes you immune/bulletproof.
I think the problem that a lot of people have now is more with the vaccine passport than the vaccine itself.
Here in Ontario you can not dine indoors, watch your kid play hockey, go to a wedding, funeral or go to the gym, etc. without showing your papers. Since the vaccine is not stopping transmission (but certainly helping reduce the chance of hospitalization and death), this does not make sense to a lot of people. Even more so that people have offered to show a negative covid test to do the above - but that is not accepted - papers only.
(I'm double vaccinated by the way - but do have questions about the logic of this system).
Because the other thing the vaccine dies is greatly reduce the chance of transmission. We want this thing to end, don’t we? We need to get everyone vacc’d, and if that means heavy pressure, so be it.
I read a case of a woman who refused to get vacc’d, was loudly against it, til she got the chance to go to a Justin Bieber concert. (Vacc only) She got vacc’d
right - but if someone is willing to show a negative test that shows that they do not have covid as of that time - should that not be as good (if not better?) than someone who is vaccinated, but could be carrying the virus?
I think part of the reason for this is public vs individual health - so yes they can't pass it on for that particular event when they are negative, but if they are exposed at that event (perhaps by an asymptomatic vaxx'd person) then they have a higher chance of becoming ill and spreading it around and/or needing health care resources.
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Saliva covid testing is being trialed in school children in Hampshire and the Isle of White, England. Its happening under the control of one of the Southampton Universities and the Regional hospital. The youngsters put saliva into a sample pot and return it to school who send it on to the lab. If this proves accurate as those tests we have, I hope it could be rolled out because its far more easy to use than the present swabs, particularly in children.
I'm in Colorado and most of our state testing sites offer the saliva test, I don't know about private clinics. It takes a little more planning than the PCR. They want you to have not eaten anything (even a mint, they're very specific about that!) for 30 minutes before the test and no liquids 10 minutes before. Last go-round I went for PCR just because I honestly couldn't remember how long it had been since breakfast or when I finished my coffee. Plus this last COVID test was the only one I've taken that I worried about the result, and I trust PCR more.
And yep. It was positive. But at least I know.17 -
I'm just talking about the real world, and in my area the vaxxed act like their are bulletproof. Only vaxxed people are allowed to go to events, bars or restaurants. Places where they are mingling unmasked..
Since unvaxxed can't even enter a bar or restaurant, they are stuck at home. They are also required to wear a mask when they go shopping, so all around they are low risk of transmission outside of their home. Protesters are rare and not normal activity.
The unvaxxed where I live also go to stores, restaurants, etc. without masks. Walmart is now just recommending unvaccinated customers wear masks. But for the brief time it was a rule, unvaxxed customers still didn't wear a mask. Then again, when Walmart required masks for everyone, people still didn't wear it and nobody enforced the policy anyway.8 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I'm just talking about the real world, and in my area the vaxxed act like their are bulletproof. Only vaxxed people are allowed to go to events, bars or restaurants. Places where they are mingling unmasked..
Since unvaxxed can't even enter a bar or restaurant, they are stuck at home. They are also required to wear a mask when they go shopping, so all around they are low risk of transmission outside of their home. Protesters are rare and not normal activity.
The unvaxxed where I live also go to stores, restaurants, etc. without masks. Walmart is now just recommending unvaccinated customers wear masks. But for the brief time it was a rule, unvaxxed customers still didn't wear a mask. Then again, when Walmart required masks for everyone, people still didn't wear it and nobody enforced the policy anyway.
Where I am everyone is required to wear masks indoors (unless in a private space -- everyone in my office is vaxxed, so we don't have to). Originally it was just unvaxxed, but that was apparently unenforceable, since you didn't know who was unvaxxed, so now we all have to.
On the other hand, when seated at a table you can take your mask off at a bar or restaurant, but unvaxxed are free to go (but for a rare establishment that decides otherwise).2 -
The saliva tests may not be the same test in the UK and the US. All I know is, the 13 year old had no issues with the ones they are using.1
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I'm just talking about the real world, and in my area the vaxxed act like their are bulletproof. Only vaxxed people are allowed to go to events, bars or restaurants. Places where they are mingling unmasked..
Since unvaxxed can't even enter a bar or restaurant, they are stuck at home. They are also required to wear a mask when they go shopping, so all around they are low risk of transmission outside of their home. Protesters are rare and not normal activity.
The unvaxxed where I live also go to stores, restaurants, etc. without masks. Walmart is now just recommending unvaccinated customers wear masks. But for the brief time it was a rule, unvaxxed customers still didn't wear a mask. Then again, when Walmart required masks for everyone, people still didn't wear it and nobody enforced the policy anyway.
I think the only workable strategy is to require everyone to wear masks, regardless of vaxx status. Keep the message simple and both groups are susceptible. Compliance isn't 100% but at least everyone has the same rules.15 -
yes in large public places like supermarkets, sports arenas - I agree the only workable policy is everyone masked. (as it is where I live)
But I can see a case for people being unmasked in smaller controlled settings such as their work place if they have documented evidence of being fully vaccinated.8 -
Question for you all.
So now Pfizer is approved for the 5 - 11 year olds and if I heard/understood correctly, the dosage is reduced (I think a 5th). Now, thinking back to when the vaccines were first released, I swear that I remember discussions on dosage vs the physical characteristics of the recipient. Was it not stated at that time that vaccinations (or at least these vaccinations) did "not work that way" and dosage did not matter whether the individual was 100 lbs or 300 lbs. I have to assume that the current policy of customized dosage is more accurate, but does this not lead us to question if the one-size-fits-all standard for adults might not be adaquate.
What am I missing?2 -
Question for you all.
So now Pfizer is approved for the 5 - 11 year olds and if I heard/understood correctly, the dosage is reduced (I think a 5th). Now, thinking back to when the vaccines were first released, I swear that I remember discussions on dosage vs the physical characteristics of the recipient. Was it not stated at that time that vaccinations (or at least these vaccinations) did "not work that way" and dosage did not matter whether the individual was 100 lbs or 300 lbs. I have to assume that the current policy of customized dosage is more accurate, but does this not lead us to question if the one-size-fits-all standard for adults might not be adaquate.
What am I missing?
I can't answer specifically, but children aren't just little adults, there are other variables to be considered.
I don't remember seeing anything out there regarding dosage based on size. Considering the vaccine is just posing as a virus to teach your immune system how to fight it, and I've never heard that bigger people are more or less likely to get sick from viruses because it would take a larger amount of the virus in their system to get an immune response, it doesn't seem to me it would matter. Though of course I'm not a doctor
I know they discussed at some point on TWIV that in an effort to get the vaccines out as quickly as was safely possible, they tested to make sure the dosage was "enough" but it was possible that over time we'd find out that you could get away with less. Not sure if that's related or not.
ETA: TWIV has gotten questions asking if a child is 11, should they get the child's dose or wait for their 12th b-day to get the teen dose. They did say that's a question for your pediatrician, if the child is healthy and developing "normally" it probably is something not worth worrying about, just get whichever one is available.6 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I'm just talking about the real world, and in my area the vaxxed act like their are bulletproof. Only vaxxed people are allowed to go to events, bars or restaurants. Places where they are mingling unmasked..
Since unvaxxed can't even enter a bar or restaurant, they are stuck at home. They are also required to wear a mask when they go shopping, so all around they are low risk of transmission outside of their home. Protesters are rare and not normal activity.
The unvaxxed where I live also go to stores, restaurants, etc. without masks. Walmart is now just recommending unvaccinated customers wear masks. But for the brief time it was a rule, unvaxxed customers still didn't wear a mask. Then again, when Walmart required masks for everyone, people still didn't wear it and nobody enforced the policy anyway.
There really is a wide variety of behavior on this issue. Where I live, they just lifted the mandate to wear masks indoors in public spaces about a week ago, and everywhere I've gone during that time, everybody inside has been wearing a mask.1 -
Question for you all.
So now Pfizer is approved for the 5 - 11 year olds and if I heard/understood correctly, the dosage is reduced (I think a 5th). Now, thinking back to when the vaccines were first released, I swear that I remember discussions on dosage vs the physical characteristics of the recipient. Was it not stated at that time that vaccinations (or at least these vaccinations) did "not work that way" and dosage did not matter whether the individual was 100 lbs or 300 lbs. I have to assume that the current policy of customized dosage is more accurate, but does this not lead us to question if the one-size-fits-all standard for adults might not be adaquate.
What am I missing?
It's not customized. All kids 5-11 get the same dose (my understanding that it's 1/3 the adult/teen dose). What I have heard is that it's about differences in children's immune system functions from adults, not about size.7 -
Question for you all.
So now Pfizer is approved for the 5 - 11 year olds and if I heard/understood correctly, the dosage is reduced (I think a 5th). Now, thinking back to when the vaccines were first released, I swear that I remember discussions on dosage vs the physical characteristics of the recipient. Was it not stated at that time that vaccinations (or at least these vaccinations) did "not work that way" and dosage did not matter whether the individual was 100 lbs or 300 lbs. I have to assume that the current policy of customized dosage is more accurate, but does this not lead us to question if the one-size-fits-all standard for adults might not be adaquate.
What am I missing?
I can't answer specifically, but children aren't just little adults, there are other variables to be considered.
I don't remember seeing anything out there regarding dosage based on size. Considering the vaccine is just posing as a virus to teach your immune system how to fight it, and I've never heard that bigger people are more or less likely to get sick from viruses because it would take a larger amount of the virus in their system to get an immune response, it doesn't seem to me it would matter. Though of course I'm not a doctor
I know they discussed at some point on TWIV that in an effort to get the vaccines out as quickly as was safely possible, they tested to make sure the dosage was "enough" but it was possible that over time we'd find out that you could get away with less. Not sure if that's related or not.
ETA: TWIV has gotten questions asking if a child is 11, should they get the child's dose or wait for their 12th b-day to get the teen dose. They did say that's a question for your pediatrician, if the child is healthy and developing "normally" it probably is something not worth worrying about, just get whichever one is available.
Also Moderna had a much higher dose of active ingredient in their shot than Pfizer. I think the idea is to give the lowest possible dose that triggers an immune response, to minimize adverse effects maybe? Not sure why Moderna felt the need to dose so much higher than Pfizer though.
I had two Pfizer and just gonna hedge my bets and try to get Moderna for my 3rd shot (if and when that is available here.)
It does seem odd that an 11 year old would get 1/3 of the dose of a 12 year old.
(Edit: oops I quoted the wrong post here - this was supposed to be in response to SModa61)2 -
@SModa61 ! After posting I decided to listen to TWIV while I worked and Mondays epi was a Q&A with Dr Daniel Griffith and he talked about this
He said there is an age based development process for the immune system which leads to the dosing differences. A woman said her son is 4 and 1/2 and big for his age so can he get the 5-11 shot early, and he said no, she should wait.7 -
Question for you all.
So now Pfizer is approved for the 5 - 11 year olds and if I heard/understood correctly, the dosage is reduced (I think a 5th). Now, thinking back to when the vaccines were first released, I swear that I remember discussions on dosage vs the physical characteristics of the recipient. Was it not stated at that time that vaccinations (or at least these vaccinations) did "not work that way" and dosage did not matter whether the individual was 100 lbs or 300 lbs. I have to assume that the current policy of customized dosage is more accurate, but does this not lead us to question if the one-size-fits-all standard for adults might not be adaquate.
What am I missing?
I can't answer specifically, but children aren't just little adults, there are other variables to be considered.
I don't remember seeing anything out there regarding dosage based on size. Considering the vaccine is just posing as a virus to teach your immune system how to fight it, and I've never heard that bigger people are more or less likely to get sick from viruses because it would take a larger amount of the virus in their system to get an immune response, it doesn't seem to me it would matter. Though of course I'm not a doctor
I know they discussed at some point on TWIV that in an effort to get the vaccines out as quickly as was safely possible, they tested to make sure the dosage was "enough" but it was possible that over time we'd find out that you could get away with less. Not sure if that's related or not.
ETA: TWIV has gotten questions asking if a child is 11, should they get the child's dose or wait for their 12th b-day to get the teen dose. They did say that's a question for your pediatrician, if the child is healthy and developing "normally" it probably is something not worth worrying about, just get whichever one is available.
Also Moderna had a much higher dose of active ingredient in their shot than Pfizer. I think the idea is to give the lowest possible dose that triggers an immune response, to minimize adverse effects maybe? Not sure why Moderna felt the need to dose so much higher than Pfizer though.
I had two Pfizer and just gonna hedge my bets and try to get Moderna for my 3rd shot (if and when that is available here.)
It does seem odd that an 11 year old would get 1/3 of the dose of a 12 year old.
(Edit: oops I quoted the wrong post here - this was supposed to be in response to SModa61)
The approved Moderna booster is actually a half dose. (They were just talking about this too). I think he said Pfizer is 30-30-30 and Moderna is 100-100-50. But don't quote me on those numbers...4 -
Question for you all.
So now Pfizer is approved for the 5 - 11 year olds and if I heard/understood correctly, the dosage is reduced (I think a 5th). Now, thinking back to when the vaccines were first released, I swear that I remember discussions on dosage vs the physical characteristics of the recipient. Was it not stated at that time that vaccinations (or at least these vaccinations) did "not work that way" and dosage did not matter whether the individual was 100 lbs or 300 lbs. I have to assume that the current policy of customized dosage is more accurate, but does this not lead us to question if the one-size-fits-all standard for adults might not be adaquate.
What am I missing?
I can't answer specifically, but children aren't just little adults, there are other variables to be considered.
I don't remember seeing anything out there regarding dosage based on size. Considering the vaccine is just posing as a virus to teach your immune system how to fight it, and I've never heard that bigger people are more or less likely to get sick from viruses because it would take a larger amount of the virus in their system to get an immune response, it doesn't seem to me it would matter. Though of course I'm not a doctor
I know they discussed at some point on TWIV that in an effort to get the vaccines out as quickly as was safely possible, they tested to make sure the dosage was "enough" but it was possible that over time we'd find out that you could get away with less. Not sure if that's related or not.
ETA: TWIV has gotten questions asking if a child is 11, should they get the child's dose or wait for their 12th b-day to get the teen dose. They did say that's a question for your pediatrician, if the child is healthy and developing "normally" it probably is something not worth worrying about, just get whichever one is available.
Also Moderna had a much higher dose of active ingredient in their shot than Pfizer. I think the idea is to give the lowest possible dose that triggers an immune response, to minimize adverse effects maybe? Not sure why Moderna felt the need to dose so much higher than Pfizer though.
I had two Pfizer and just gonna hedge my bets and try to get Moderna for my 3rd shot (if and when that is available here.)
It does seem odd that an 11 year old would get 1/3 of the dose of a 12 year old.
(Edit: oops I quoted the wrong post here - this was supposed to be in response to SModa61)
The approved Moderna booster is actually a half dose. (They were just talking about this too). I think he said Pfizer is 30-30-30 and Moderna is 100-100-50. But don't quote me on those numbers...
Oh damn - well it is what it is I guess - anything is better than nothing. Happy that my "kids" (adults) all got one of each anyway.
Apparently the dosing schedule makes a difference too with longer spacing actually giving a "better" immune response. My doses were 13 weeks apart so maybe I won on that front.4
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