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Good news for people who like eating fat!
Replies
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SnuggleSmacks wrote: »
You must have missed the last few pages. The conversation evolved quite a ways from LCHF.
Actually, I was pretty involved in the last few pages. Which post demonized sucrose?0 -
SnuggleSmacks wrote: »
You must have missed the last few pages. The conversation evolved quite a ways from LCHF.
Yes. But the argument did not become "sucrose is the devil." It became "Is sucrose in the form of table sugar less natural than sucrose in fruits because it is refined?"
No demons there, except for our own personal ones.0 -
baconslave wrote: »
Yes. But the argument did not become "sucrose is the devil." It became "Is sucrose in the form of table sugar less natural than sucrose in fruits because it is refined?"
No demons there, except for our own personal ones.
ding ding ding, we have a winner.0 -
None of them.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Actually, I was pretty involved in the last few pages. Which post demonized sucrose?
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »None of them.
All it takes is one spoon to stir the pot. Then the dog-piles begin.
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baconslave wrote: »No demons there, except for our own personal ones.
think this wraps up food issues pretty much across the board.0 -
think this wraps up food issues pretty much across the board.
Exactly.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
I'm not sure if you are serious or not. I thought about starting a post that I was going to transition to a vegan diet for ethical reasons to test your hypothesis, but I think I've probably posted too often about my diet.
I've mentioned a bunch of times that I get meat from local farms for ethical reasons of my own and no one has ever given me a hard time about it. (Of course, it's entirely possible no one reads my posts.)
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
I've mentioned a bunch of times that I get meat from local farms for ethical reasons of my own and no one has ever given me a hard time about it. (Of course, it's entirely possible no one reads my posts.)
I can certifiably say I read nothing you wrote.
nothing including the above post about meat from a farmer- did.not.read.
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baconslave wrote: »
Yes. But the argument did not become "sucrose is the devil." It became "Is sucrose in the form of table sugar less natural than sucrose in fruits because it is refined?"
No demons there, except for our own personal ones.
Well, if we want to be precise, what happened was someone was going on about certain kinds of stevia being "natural" vs. other kinds, and the "natural" kind was an extract. Someone said that it being natural did not necessarily make it better, as cyanide is natural, and I added that under that particular definition of "natural"--allowing for an extract to be counted--so was white sugar, as both are derived from plants. (I didn't spell all that out, but it was obvious in the comment.)
Based on that, I got jumped on and told I didn't know the meaning of "natural."
(As if there were one, and as if my point was ever that sugar is "natural," which I think is a silly thing to care about.)
Are there good keto-related reasons to prefer one form of stevia to another? Seems so, and that's great for those who do keto. Doesn't have to do with "nature," though. Lots of "natural" foods are no doubt terrible for keto, like the all-natural potato!
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I've mentioned a bunch of times that I get meat from local farms...
That's definitely not natural.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
Well, if we want to be precise, what happened was someone was going on about certain kinds of stevia being "natural" vs. other kinds, and the "natural" kind was an extract. Someone said that it being natural did not necessarily make it better, as cyanide is natural, and I added that under that particular definition of "natural"--allowing for an extract to be counted--so was white sugar, as both are derived from plants. (I didn't spell all that out, but it was obvious in the comment.)
Based on that, I got jumped on and told I didn't know the meaning of "natural."
(As if there were one, and as if my point was ever that sugar is "natural," which I think is a silly thing to care about.)
Are there good keto-related reasons to prefer one form of stevia to another? Seems so, and that's great for those who do keto. Doesn't have to do with "nature," though. Lots of "natural" foods are no doubt terrible for keto, like the all-natural potato!
I agree. It really has nothing to do with being natural. Whatever that is. You want to eat natural stevia, find a plant that randomly seeded somewhere by chance and chew the leaves off it. Otherwise it's processed to some degree. Whether or not it's just ground up leaves, to some that is "processing." H*ll, even chewing the things, and then having them digested by the stomach is "processing" by some definition. Just shove the whole leaves in your vein while it's still attached to the plant if you want to get even more ridiculous.
I see little point in the distinction. It's not that "processing" is putting cyanide in it. It's just an extraneous argument and really adds nothing. It's just fodder for those who feel like a good jaw-wagging or a fight. But since this entire vein is a threadjack of a threadjack, pffft, whatever, IMO.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Well, if we want to be precise, what happened was someone was going on about certain kinds of stevia being "natural" vs. other kinds, and the "natural" kind was an extract. Someone said that it being natural did not necessarily make it better, as cyanide is natural, and I added that under that particular definition of "natural"--allowing for an extract to be counted--so was white sugar, as both are derived from plants. (I didn't spell all that out, but it was obvious in the comment.)
Based on that, I got jumped on and told I didn't know the meaning of "natural."
(As if there were one, and as if my point was ever that sugar is "natural," which I think is a silly thing to care about.)
Are there good keto-related reasons to prefer one form of stevia to another? Seems so, and that's great for those who do keto. Doesn't have to do with "nature," though. Lots of "natural" foods are no doubt terrible for keto, like the all-natural potato!
"Jumped"?? Geez. Seriously?0 -
Luckily I don't care a bit whether something is natural or not.
I also cook the meat.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
Luckily I don't care a bit whether something is natural or not.
I also cook the meat.
et tu sushi?0 -
rprussell2004 wrote: »SCIENCE!
"New research links diabetes, heart disease risk to diet high in carbs, not fat."
I'm gonna do them a few better and quadruple it.
I want to know who the clown is that flagged this post.0 -
Next year I'm heading out to a farm to shoot, clean and process my pig for the year. The child who is raising it will help.lemurcat12 wrote: »
I've mentioned a bunch of times that I get meat from local farms for ethical reasons of my own and no one has ever given me a hard time about it. (Of course, it's entirely possible no one reads my posts.)
Circle of life.
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Next year I'm heading out to a farm to shoot, clean and process my pig for the year. The child who is raising it will help.
Circle of life.
Only one for the whole YEAR?
You've got more control than I do.0 -
300# of meat for two people is a lot of pig. I also take a lamb, usually pop a few illegally immigrating ducks out of the year. I try to put a whole in bambi and yogi...
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LolBroScience wrote: »
Does bottled water?
At first blush it seems that you are just poking others to satisfy some underlying need to annoy. But actually there is very little water consumed in the world that is truly natural. Filtering, chemically sterilizing, or both is the norm for most. Even well water isn't something that is truly natural. You can't just go outside and suck on the dirt to get the ground water out (far fetched). The thing is, we just have to understand the world we live in and do the best we can. Practically nothing on my dinner table is going to look like it did in its original state. So just because a plant or animal component has been manipulated for easier or better use then I just don't see the point in differentiating between natural and unnatural. I guess where I might/tend draw the line is when components not found in nature or ever in the history of the human diet are added to maintain freshness or anything else for that matter. And that could be just my lack of education on the subject.0 -
et tu sushi?
I have to admit that I don't get my sushi from local farms! ;-)
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BlackTimber wrote: »
At first blush it seems that you are just poking others to satisfy some underlying need to annoy. But actually there is very little water consumed in the world that is truly natural. Filtering, chemically sterilizing, or both is the norm for most. Even well water isn't something that is truly natural. You can't just go outside and suck on the dirt to get the ground water out (far fetched). The thing is, we just have to understand the world we live in and do the best we can. Practically nothing on my dinner table is going to look like it did in its original state. So just because a plant or animal component has been manipulated for easier or better use then I just don't see the point in differentiating between natural and unnatural. I guess where I might/tend draw the line is when components not found in nature or ever in the history of the human diet are added to maintain freshness or anything else for that matter. And that could be just my lack of education on the subject.
lol
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
I have to admit that I don't get my sushi from local farms! ;-)
probably for the best !!!0 -
BlackTimber wrote: »
At first blush it seems that you are just poking others to satisfy some underlying need to annoy. But actually there is very little water consumed in the world that is truly natural. Filtering, chemically sterilizing, or both is the norm for most. Even well water isn't something that is truly natural. You can't just go outside and suck on the dirt to get the ground water out (far fetched). The thing is, we just have to understand the world we live in and do the best we can. Practically nothing on my dinner table is going to look like it did in its original state. So just because a plant or animal component has been manipulated for easier or better use then I just don't see the point in differentiating between natural and unnatural. I guess where I might/tend draw the line is when components not found in nature or ever in the history of the human diet are added to maintain freshness or anything else for that matter. And that could be just my lack of education on the subject.
It's fine that you don't see the point in differentiating between natural and unnatural. But others do see the point.-1 -
Meanwhile, back at the point, a previous paper studies the same effect in overweight and obese men maintaining weight. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20820932
Saturated fat from the diet is metabolised rather than accumulated in the blood, especially when carbohydrates are restricted.
^So that article made me do some research. I never realized the size of the ldl makes a difference and that your diet could actually affect the size of the ldl particles you have. Interesting.
I'm surprised the men had a significant increase in ketone bodies considering their carb intake was 12%; I figured you had to be much lower to get ketones to form (although I'm not sure what level is defined as being in ketosis as they only got to about 250).
The increase in arachidonic acid without an increase in oxidative stress response is also interesting.
Although, as per usual, it's an extremely small sample size, and while they demonstrate significant results, there is a huge standard deviation for all of there results.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Crystalized table sugar is found in fruits?? Do tell!
Sucrose isn't found in fruits? No ignorance there
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Sucrose isn't found in fruits? No ignorance there
This is what I was responding to when I posted this:
It's kind of funny that beets, cantaloupes, clementines, pineapples, appricots and peaches have so much sucrose (yes, sucrose, sometimes two to three times as much sucrose as fructose or glucose) but sucrose is being demonized, and foods that contain it are not.
Sorry I didn't make that clear.
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Sucrose isn't found in fruits? No ignorance there
So you cut open a banana and sugar granules pour out?
I want what you're smoking.
Nobody said there was no sucrose in fruit.-1 -
baconslave wrote: »
Not from me you won't. Fillers just steal away your carbs, which are low levels to begin with. It's BETTER to preserve them when you can, so you have more to "spend." But if you have to use them, or you just don't care whether or not you use them, your carbs will be a little higher, but that doesn't make you a bad ketoer. We choose what we want to do with our carbs. Some days I have no fiber at all because I choose carbs without them. Others, I have as many as 10g of fiber when I feel like eating more veggies. Neither is better than the other. Personal choice. I use the liquid sweeteners because I want to preserve my carbs for nuts, and cheese, and some times veggies. I get to eat more. Does that make me a better "keto queen" than anyone else? Of course not.
We're not trying to make this a "sweetener snob" argument. We're just trying to cut carbs where we can. I personally prefer splenda, but I can't afford the liquid version and the carbs in the powder aren't worth it to me. So I found a way that works.
Yeah, I was joking about the bad keto-er thing. As long as the sweetener of choice doesn't put me over 5-6%..and I've eaten my vegetables, it doesn't matter to me. 0 -
I've yet to see a hf thread that didn't end up being a ridiculous debate about something not really related to hf..
There are a lot of different takes on what is considered natural. semantics. What's the point in arguing?
..saying someone is demonizing something is probably one of the most annoying things I've come across on these boards. since everyone is just nitpicking..-1
This discussion has been closed.
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