"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
Options
Replies
-
MontyMuttland wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".
I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.
How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.
Agreed. My homemade pepperoni pizza has 524 cals, 51 carbs, 25 fat and 27 protein in 2 slices. I consider that a pretty good macro ratio. Add veggies to that, even better.
You both illustrate my point perfectly.
If your average pizza actually was just bread, cheese, veggies then you'd be some way to having a bit of nutrition - but they're not.
Try reading the ingredients list on some pizza packaging, you'll see the list of stuff going in them is somewhat longer. Then read the nutritional information about those pizzas and see just how "healthy" they are.
The home-made pizza does sound a ton better, specially the amount of protein there compared to ready-made ones. But I'll make a stab at two slices being what, two sixths of the pizza maybe?
I've been a fat person remember, fat people don't eat two slices of pizza, they eat whole pizzas. And so do most ordinary people as well. Do you order half pizzas or quarter pizzas in a restaurant? Nope, didn't think so.
So yeah, two-sixths of a pizza for 524 calories ain't bad, but that's knocking on the door of 1600 calories for the whole pizza.
And guess who is eating the whole pizza?
Yep, just about everyone...
Just...wow. Fat people eat whole pizzas, not two slices, huh? And somehow packaging pizza sucks all the nutrients out of it. Because there's a long list of ingredients. Huh. So you know what we all eat, how we eat it and what made us fat. Huh.
I've posted this before, but I think it bears repeating here. My diet is heavy on frozen meals, protein/energy bars, and other unnatural foods. MFP records the macro and micro nutrients they contain. Guess what - they add up pretty good at the end of the day. I lost 30 lbs because I was on the edge of requiring statins and blood pressure meds. I'm no longer anywhere near that state and I haven't changed my diet at all, just the amounts I eat. Like wine or dessert after dinner, not both. I eat what I like, which is food.
Actually I do know what made you fat.
You ate too much and didn't move enough.
But that's the same for all of us.
It's a shame that the focus here is mainly on pizza. I pointed out that I don't eat pizza anymore and stated that the reason is because it's nutritionally poor.
That's a generalisation of course, but it's also a fact that most pizzas out there are nutritionally poor.
Whether you believe it or not is totally up to you. You won't read many package labels that say something other than the pizza is high in calories/carbs, high in salt, high in fat and low in protein.
Packaging a pizza doesn't suck the nutrition out of it, it was simply lacking in the first place.
The message I hoped to convey about food choices is that people want to question what they are eating, check it out to see if what they believe about it is actually true.
Then make some changes.
I'm sorry, but the bolded is patently false. How is a thin crust pizza with tomato sauce, cheese, onions, mushrooms, and peppers "nutritionally poor"? This is a serious, honest question. I guess if the only pizza you ever eat comes out of the freezer section of the grocery store, and you are afraid of "chemicals", I guess I could see how you might come to that conclusion. But I'm just not following you
7 -
comeonnow142857 wrote: »
But in the stomach, hydrochloric acid nullifies any preservatives action.I just want a triple whopper with bacon and cheese but I saw that video where it sat on a shelf for a long time without spoiling and the fries lasted a year without changing at all.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Not me, my stomach is completely chemical free!
Even Dihydrogen Monoxide?
5 -
Yeah, I'm one who would eat a large sized deep-dish pizza. All in one sitting with a 2L bottle of Pepsi. Meat lovers no less. Gave me heartburn, but worth every minute of it. I often would just sleep downstairs so I didn't have to bother the wife with getting Gaviscon every 1/2 hour.
Guess what I had last night. 1/2 a thin crust meat lovers pizza. Gonna have the other half tonight. Oh and I had a micro-brewed beer with it last night and will probably have a Guinness with it tonight. No heartburn, no gaviscon and it fits into my calories.
I'm happy with it.12 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Yeah, I'm one who would eat a large sized deep-dish pizza. All in one sitting with a 2L bottle of Pepsi. Meat lovers no less. Gave me heartburn, but worth every minute of it. I often would just sleep downstairs so I didn't have to bother the wife with getting Gaviscon every 1/2 hour.
Guess what I had last night. 1/2 a thin crust meat lovers pizza. Gonna have the other half tonight. Oh and I had a micro-brewed beer with it last night and will probably have a Guinness with it tonight. No heartburn, no gaviscon and it fits into my calories.
I'm happy with it.
Just quoting this because it's extra-awesome and I can only awesome vote it once, but it deserves more
7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »When did I say that???? What are you talking about???? In no way was my message cryptic. It was do what makes you happy. IF you think that it is because of your own insecurities.
Do what makes me happy?? You mean like literally do whatever makes me happy?!?. Well that sounds completely irresponsible and inappropriate advice. Who doesn't enjoy doing extremely dangerous and harmful things? Who doesn't enjoy eating only junk food? This is terrible advice!! Why do you hate me??
Hate is a strong word but that is what I mean. That is exactly what I mean. Do what makes you happy. If you don't know as an adult not to do something that is harmful to you, well that is one you.
That's kind of the whole point here. It's not "garbage advice" to tell people to eat what they like because the vast majority of people instinctively understand that will not include things that make them feel ill. Yet that was your argument for agreeing with the OP.
Ok, let me clarify. That was not my argument. I had no argument. I just had lunch. It was Pizza. I don't generally eat pizza. It made me feel bad. Not sick, not in pain, not hurting. Just like when I eat any other fast food. Fast food is not something I generally eat, it's not something I ever gave my kid, it's not something I recommend. I am not big on eating out at all. I cook most of my meals. However, I do on OCCASION eat fast food. Like I did today with a friend for lunch, or if I am traveling and the trip is long. So I am not "condemning" (as it was said) any one for eating it. I could careless what you eat. Your an adult. Do what you want. If you take that as me judging you or an oxymoron again I don't care. Your an adult.
For me, not you, but for me I agree with the OP.
Now maybe some people here need support and I get that.
Like one young lady said she eats what she wants she would rather die young and happy and do what she wants. I TOTALLY AGREE. Do what makes you happy!!!! Eat what you want but your way might not be my way if is eating out a lot or having fast food on a daily basis.
1 -
People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
So many assumptions about other peoples mindset, preferences, motivation, abilities, physiology, as to render these statements completely irrelevant to reality.
Unless you are seriously without any food resources whatsoever, or suffering from a wasting type of illness, it is difficult to starve to death in North America. You want starving? Look to nations in Africa. If you are staying within calorie limits of 1200 for women and 1500 for men as a minimum, you are not starving.
Many people will have one slice of pizza as a meal and not want more. This projection alone destroys the credibility of anything else the OP might have to say. This is truly the statement of a privileged individual who cannot conceive of anything other than his/her own situation, or experience
Eating food that does not meet ones taste expectations will not be sustained. Thats why so many North Americans are overweight - humans tend to do what gives them pleasure and avoid things that do not. If we dont like it, we dont eat it. Thats why everyones diet can be different. Satisfying a craving does not automatically lead to a binge - thats not a causal relationship. The term "better" may have a different meaning for you than for me - its not a helpful descriptor.
I have lost a ton of weight - well, not a ton, but over 100 lbs. Believe me, I have NOT forgotten what its like to be obese, to worry about getting on public transportation wondering if I will fit in the seat or need an extender; being able to shop only in specialty stores; being afraid to eat out in public because people WILL judge, and I dont want others to see me eat and think "She does NOT need to eat THAT!'; standing behind other people in pictures so they hide how big I am; not having the energy to play with the dog and resent having to go up and down stairs; thinking about how I will probably die in a fire at work because I cant manage the stairs as fast as other people to get out of the building; having joints ache from the burden of carrying the extra weight; the shame and guilt and frustration of thinking that every "diet" plan I tried was unsuccessful and that I must simply be a crappy person because of it. You bet I remember it - it was the painful, soul sucking tape that was running in my head for over 20 years. And I deeply resent that anyone would think that I COULD forget it, and be such a shallow person as a result.
What freed me was learning that I could eat WHATEVER I wanted, within my calorie budget. I NEVER assumed that it could be just Twinkies - only a fool or someone being deliberately disingenuous would think that. You CANNOT not know about nutrition these days as it is all over our society, as society today worships the slim and the young and the vibrant. If you are on these forums, you have a computer and you know how to use google - it constantly amazes me to see posts that say "tell me what to eat" or "how do I lose weight". If you are motivated to do it, then for petes sake, put some effort into it.
At least the OP admits that people arent lying when it is said that you can eat junk food - how this is not helpful in practice is beyond me - I mean, are you one of those "tell me what to eat" people? This just tells me you are overweight AND lazy. How can I tell you what to eat - what do you like? Allergies? Medical condition? Availability? The advice cannot be more specific because of this - I like it the expression "eat food, mostly plants and less of it" even better.
Thanks for literally hours of enjoyment with this thread! I hope I am not considered "a moron" - I was not asked that in my first post over a year ago!!
9 -
If they say it so much, please provide just one quote of someone claiming that moderation is strictly defined as "eating a little every day" and doesn't apply to the approach of moderating frequency of consumption.ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Right here! I would rather have a lot of food than a little bit. If I have some teensy-weensy, tee-niney, pigmy sized pea shaped piece of something magically delicious I will not be satisfied. I save the junk for when I REALLY want it. I may blow my calories that day but man is it ever worth it when I do! Some people really are content with two Oreos or a half-cup of ice cream. I I eat that and it's gonna be on like Donkey-Kong.
I consider this a form of moderation too, though.
One form is eat a serving (or whatever amount regularly fits in your calories) more regularly. For example, I went through a stage where I had about 200 calories for dessert every night. I'd have ice cream or cheese usually, or else a more indulgent dinner.
Another is a rare blow out. There are some things I'm not interested in eating in moderation or are hard to fit -- a Mexican restaurant, Indian restaurant, Ethiopian restaurant, rare multi-course tasting menu at a new place, maybe. So I do them more rarely (at maintenance it doesn't have to be that rarely, as I tend to do a weekend long run and long bike, but depends), but when I do them I don't try to fit a calorie goal or skip the naan and get the tandoori chicken and so on. I eat what I want and without really worrying about it and since it's not something I do weekly regardless of workout it doesn't matter. It's a form of moderation. If I felt like that about ice cream or cake (I really don't, I'd rather just have a sensible amount and not overdo), then I'd follow a similar schedule there. But I wouldn't claim that meant "eat what you want within your calories" didn't work, since that would still be what I was doing.
I love pie, I have it basically on holidays only anymore, because baking it is a bad idea unless I have other people to eat it, and because if I bake it I will want more than a piece. I haven't cut out pie and wouldn't tell anyone else you need to cut out pie. 'Cause that's not so, even though I don't eat much pie anymore.
Moderation comes in many forms. I choose to abstain more often. However the kind of moderation most often referred to around here is the "make it fit on a daily basis" moderation.
Then why do so many posts advocating for moderation say "sure, you can have X just maybe not every day?"
Because there are so many thousands of comments on these boards you will easily find "so many" of almost anything if you look for it. Many push making it fit daily, many advocate a cheat day, many advocate saving it for one when you just want it so bad you don't want to resist. You tell me why so many different views, opinions and ways of eating exist. There are many different types of people on these boards is the likely answer.
You're projecting when you say what other people mean by "moderation."
As a strong supporter of moderating, I would tell you that moderation entails controlling portion sizes on some foods and frequency of intake on others. Which foods fall into which category varies by individual. Also, moderation via control of frequency could mean only having one a day vs three a day or it could mean only having that item once a week or it could mean only having that food on holidays/special occasions.
Considering that you feel so strongly that the majority of moderation proponents on MFP think of moderation only as fitting treats into each and every day, I challenge you to find 3 frequent posters who support the concept of moderation but disagree with my definition above.
When a person says what they mean, and they say it a LOT around here I am repeating not projecting. I speak on what I see. You don't even have to like it.2 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Yeah, I'm one who would eat a large sized deep-dish pizza. All in one sitting with a 2L bottle of Pepsi. Meat lovers no less. Gave me heartburn, but worth every minute of it. I often would just sleep downstairs so I didn't have to bother the wife with getting Gaviscon every 1/2 hour.
Guess what I had last night. 1/2 a thin crust meat lovers pizza. Gonna have the other half tonight. Oh and I had a micro-brewed beer with it last night and will probably have a Guinness with it tonight. No heartburn, no gaviscon and it fits into my calories.
I'm happy with it.
I think you summed up the ideal outcome for many on here. I think that's what the goal is isn't it? Develop a good/healthy relationship with food. Eat what you would like and things you love, but still fit it within your calorie goal and move on.
ETA: Ideal outcome in regards to food/relationship. Making the assumption weight is getting healthier as well.2 -
What? People's version of "truth" will differ based on their subjective POV.AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt
There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The TRUTH is, one can eat WHATEVER THEY WANT to lose weight as long as it's a deficit. Not ideal, but that IS THE TRUTH. How's that truth for you?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
8 -
I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.7 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »
If they say it so much, please provide just one quote of someone claiming that moderation is strictly defined as "eating a little every day" and doesn't apply to the approach of moderating frequency of consumption.ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Right here! I would rather have a lot of food than a little bit. If I have some teensy-weensy, tee-niney, pigmy sized pea shaped piece of something magically delicious I will not be satisfied. I save the junk for when I REALLY want it. I may blow my calories that day but man is it ever worth it when I do! Some people really are content with two Oreos or a half-cup of ice cream. I I eat that and it's gonna be on like Donkey-Kong.
I consider this a form of moderation too, though.
One form is eat a serving (or whatever amount regularly fits in your calories) more regularly. For example, I went through a stage where I had about 200 calories for dessert every night. I'd have ice cream or cheese usually, or else a more indulgent dinner.
Another is a rare blow out. There are some things I'm not interested in eating in moderation or are hard to fit -- a Mexican restaurant, Indian restaurant, Ethiopian restaurant, rare multi-course tasting menu at a new place, maybe. So I do them more rarely (at maintenance it doesn't have to be that rarely, as I tend to do a weekend long run and long bike, but depends), but when I do them I don't try to fit a calorie goal or skip the naan and get the tandoori chicken and so on. I eat what I want and without really worrying about it and since it's not something I do weekly regardless of workout it doesn't matter. It's a form of moderation. If I felt like that about ice cream or cake (I really don't, I'd rather just have a sensible amount and not overdo), then I'd follow a similar schedule there. But I wouldn't claim that meant "eat what you want within your calories" didn't work, since that would still be what I was doing.
I love pie, I have it basically on holidays only anymore, because baking it is a bad idea unless I have other people to eat it, and because if I bake it I will want more than a piece. I haven't cut out pie and wouldn't tell anyone else you need to cut out pie. 'Cause that's not so, even though I don't eat much pie anymore.
Moderation comes in many forms. I choose to abstain more often. However the kind of moderation most often referred to around here is the "make it fit on a daily basis" moderation.
Then why do so many posts advocating for moderation say "sure, you can have X just maybe not every day?"
Because there are so many thousands of comments on these boards you will easily find "so many" of almost anything if you look for it. Many push making it fit daily, many advocate a cheat day, many advocate saving it for one when you just want it so bad you don't want to resist. You tell me why so many different views, opinions and ways of eating exist. There are many different types of people on these boards is the likely answer.
You're projecting when you say what other people mean by "moderation."
As a strong supporter of moderating, I would tell you that moderation entails controlling portion sizes on some foods and frequency of intake on others. Which foods fall into which category varies by individual. Also, moderation via control of frequency could mean only having one a day vs three a day or it could mean only having that item once a week or it could mean only having that food on holidays/special occasions.
Considering that you feel so strongly that the majority of moderation proponents on MFP think of moderation only as fitting treats into each and every day, I challenge you to find 3 frequent posters who support the concept of moderation but disagree with my definition above.
When a person says what they mean, and they say it a LOT around here I am repeating not projecting. I speak on what I see. You don't even have to like it.
Please go read for yourself. I am not going to sift through threads or quotes to help you see what you likely already see but refuse to admit to seeing. This whole thread has turned into a neighborhood brawl in the most absurd way. Enjoy the rest of your stay here on this endlessly growing MFP rumble.2 -
Disagree. Get incarcerated for a year. Bet you'll lose weight and maybe even come out more muscular looking.MontyMuttland wrote: »"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2 -
MontyMuttland wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".
I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.
How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.
Agreed. My homemade pepperoni pizza has 524 cals, 51 carbs, 25 fat and 27 protein in 2 slices. I consider that a pretty good macro ratio. Add veggies to that, even better.
You both illustrate my point perfectly.
If your average pizza actually was just bread, cheese, veggies then you'd be some way to having a bit of nutrition - but they're not.
Try reading the ingredients list on some pizza packaging, you'll see the list of stuff going in them is somewhat longer. Then read the nutritional information about those pizzas and see just how "healthy" they are.
The home-made pizza does sound a ton better, specially the amount of protein there compared to ready-made ones. But I'll make a stab at two slices being what, two sixths of the pizza maybe?
I've been a fat person remember, fat people don't eat two slices of pizza, they eat whole pizzas. And so do most ordinary people as well. Do you order half pizzas or quarter pizzas in a restaurant? Nope, didn't think so.
So yeah, two-sixths of a pizza for 524 calories ain't bad, but that's knocking on the door of 1600 calories for the whole pizza.
And guess who is eating the whole pizza?
Yep, just about everyone...
Just...wow. Fat people eat whole pizzas, not two slices, huh? And somehow packaging pizza sucks all the nutrients out of it. Because there's a long list of ingredients. Huh. So you know what we all eat, how we eat it and what made us fat. Huh.
I've posted this before, but I think it bears repeating here. My diet is heavy on frozen meals, protein/energy bars, and other unnatural foods. MFP records the macro and micro nutrients they contain. Guess what - they add up pretty good at the end of the day. I lost 30 lbs because I was on the edge of requiring statins and blood pressure meds. I'm no longer anywhere near that state and I haven't changed my diet at all, just the amounts I eat. Like wine or dessert after dinner, not both. I eat what I like, which is food.
Actually I do know what made you fat.
You ate too much and didn't move enough.
But that's the same for all of us.
It's a shame that the focus here is mainly on pizza. I pointed out that I don't eat pizza anymore and stated that the reason is because it's nutritionally poor.
That's a generalisation of course, but it's also a fact that most pizzas out there are nutritionally poor.
Whether you believe it or not is totally up to you. You won't read many package labels that say something other than the pizza is high in calories/carbs, high in salt, high in fat and low in protein.
Packaging a pizza doesn't suck the nutrition out of it, it was simply lacking in the first place.
The message I hoped to convey about food choices is that people want to question what they are eating, check it out to see if what they believe about it is actually true.
Then make some changes.
I'm sorry, but the bolded is patently false. How is a thin crust pizza with tomato sauce, cheese, onions, mushrooms, and peppers "nutritionally poor"? This is a serious, honest question. I guess if the only pizza you ever eat comes out of the freezer section of the grocery store, and you are afraid of "chemicals", I guess I could see how you might come to that conclusion. But I'm just not following you
Indeed. Here are some sample pizzas (thin crust, they are supposed to be NY style, heresy that that is) from the Robert's place I mentioned above:
Seafood
Roasted clams, calamari, shrimp, fresh mozzarella, garlic, EVOO
Chicken Breast and Spinach
with artichoke hearts, Fontina cheese and lemon zest
Huevos Rancheros
Black bean, chorizo, queso fresco, scallion, cilantro, salsa verde and eggs ( gluten free crust n/a)
Prosciutto and Arugula
with fresh mozzarella, lemon vinaigrette, grape tomatoes
Brussels Sprout and Applewood Smoked Bacon
with dates, smoked mozzarella and balsamic glaze
Create Your Own
Choose fresh mozzarella with EVOO or tomato sauce, then add your favorite toppings: Artichoke, Basil leaves, Caramelized Onions, Tomato, Garlic, Calabrian peppers, Roasted Peppers, Jalapeño Pepper, Red onion, Spinach, Fennel Sausage, Meatballs, Pepperoni, Chicken, Bacon, Prosciutto, Shrimp
I mean, yeah, they have fewer vegetables and often a bit less protein than I like in my usual meal, but that's why I get a salad on the side and have a bit less pizza, and also why I might compensate with more protein and veg (and less fat and carbs) at my other two meals of the day.
I don't get why pizza is supposed to be "nutritionally poor" at all.3 -
Disagree. Get incarcerated for a year. Bet you'll lose weight and maybe even come out more muscular looking.MontyMuttland wrote: »"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Or enlist in the military.
5 -
-
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »When did I say that???? What are you talking about???? In no way was my message cryptic. It was do what makes you happy. IF you think that it is because of your own insecurities.
Do what makes me happy?? You mean like literally do whatever makes me happy?!?. Well that sounds completely irresponsible and inappropriate advice. Who doesn't enjoy doing extremely dangerous and harmful things? Who doesn't enjoy eating only junk food? This is terrible advice!! Why do you hate me??
Hate is a strong word but that is what I mean. That is exactly what I mean. Do what makes you happy. If you don't know as an adult not to do something that is harmful to you, well that is one you.
That's kind of the whole point here. It's not "garbage advice" to tell people to eat what they like because the vast majority of people instinctively understand that will not include things that make them feel ill. Yet that was your argument for agreeing with the OP.
Ok, let me clarify. That was not my argument. I had no argument. I just had lunch. It was Pizza. I don't generally eat pizza. It made me feel bad. Not sick, not in pain, not hurting. Just like when I eat any other fast food. Fast food is not something I generally eat, it's not something I ever gave my kid, it's not something I recommend. I am not big on eating out at all. I cook most of my meals. However, I do on OCCASION eat fast food. Like I did today with a friend for lunch, or if I am traveling and the trip is long. So I am not "condemning" (as it was said) any one for eating it. I could careless what you eat. Your an adult. Do what you want. If you take that as me judging you or an oxymoron again I don't care. Your an adult.
For me, not you, but for me I agree with the OP.
Now maybe some people here need support and I get that.
Like one young lady said she eats what she wants she would rather die young and happy and do what she wants. I TOTALLY AGREE. Do what makes you happy!!!! Eat what you want but your way might not be my way if is eating out a lot or having fast food on a daily basis.
You just made two different conflicting arguments in one statement. Wow.9 -
annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
2 -
Most of the "career" posters on here are SUCCESSFUL members. They don't adhere to the BS that the diet and fitness industry advocate to a point because many times it's a program to purchase.I have read quite a few post since being on MFP. Seemingly we have some career posters that harp on anything that they can turn into something negative. To you I say carry on. Pick another target. You don't have to quote me or you can if you want to but I COULD CARE LESS what you say or think of my comment. Point is "to each is own" do what makes you happy. Now you can try and pick apart what I am saying but my comment is to the OP. Who I agree with and how am I physically sick and needing to see a doctor. Wow!!!!! The drama
I myself work as a trainer, but I don't profit on MFP. I also don't echo what a lot of trainers out there follow when it comes to diet and eating. In fact many would be shocked to see some of these trainers preaching that stuff, but binging on pizza, beer, etc. even though they say it's horrible for you.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
7 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
That's fantastic! And what I was trying to say, maybe healthier would be a better word.
Kudos to you for all your hard work, it's inspiring0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.7K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 395 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.3K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 960 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions